Guild ships good for end game content?

[Howard22]

Don't get me wrong, I like the way crypric seems to be heading in the game. But there are a lot of people that want to role-play inside their ships as much as they want to do space battles and what not. So why can't we have our cake and eat it to? I think guild ships would be perfect for this. I'm also suggesting this not be at launch, but possibly even a year or more after.

I think it could add so much to the game. Think about when you have played any MMO for any length of time. Eventually you do most of the PvE or if you don't it can become rather repetitive. What keeps you playing?? PvP and community usually are what keeps you. People talk and say that even with only 5 people on a single ship, there might not be enough to do. That might be the case if that was how the WHOLE game was, but not if its only for guild ships.

And I think it should start out small, where that are only 2-3 guild ships available. Make these ships take a little while and quite a bit of resources to make. Even if your in a guild that has one, you can always just stay with your own ship, I must stress there is nothing that is forcing anyone to be on one. But I think it could add a whole new fun gameplay to STO and a lot of people would at the very least try it. Plus if cryptic does this and starts small...and see's that for some reason doesn't add to the game, or doesn't work they can scrap it. I just think that after someone who has played STO for quite some time, would eventually really want something like this, a community and fun gameplay aspect to keep them playing.

I do have a number of ideas on how it would all work, certain things to do on them, etc etc, but i think this is long enough, I'll add later.

[Kuhr]

Don't get me wrong, I like the way crypric seems to be heading in the game. But there are a lot of people that want to role-play inside their ships as much as they want to do space battles and what not. So why can't we have our cake and eat it to? I think guild ships would be perfect for this. I'm also suggesting this not be at launch, but possibly even a year or more after.

I think it could add so much to the game. Think about when you have played any MMO for any length of time. Eventually you do most of the PvE or if you don't it can become rather repetitive. What keeps you playing?? PvP and community usually are what keeps you. People talk and say that even with only 5 people on a single ship, there might not be enough to do. That might be the case if that was how the WHOLE game was, but not if its only for guild ships.

And I think it should start out small, where that are only 2-3 guild ships available. Make these ships take a little while and quite a bit of resources to make. Even if your in a guild that has one, you can always just stay with your own ship, I must stress there is nothing that is forcing anyone to be on one. But I think it could add a whole new fun gameplay to STO and a lot of people would at the very least try it. Plus if cryptic does this and starts small...and see's that for some reason doesn't add to the game, or doesn't work they can scrap it. I just think that after someone who has played STO for quite some time, would eventually really want something like this, a community and fun gameplay aspect to keep them playing.

I do have a number of ideas on how it would all work, certain things to do on them, etc etc, but i think this is long enough, I'll add later.

Before you get attack...I agree with you as well...good points.

[Varrangian]

The real genius of this post is he use of "we have our cake and eat it to [sic]" -

The idiom derives from the concept that it is impossible to eat one's cake and still have the cake. It is a physical impossibility. In an ironic twist it is impossible to ask Cryptic to cater to your every whim and actually have the game produced.

The further irony is that they seem to be letting this group of people effectively "have their cake and eat it too" on the forums by not enforcing the previously established policy in regards to this very topic. Perhaps since Razor is now gone all the things he said are also null and void?

I'm sure someone will be along soon to properly chastise me stifling forum discussion. It is interesting that those who seem to want STO to adhere to the Trek "vision" and the rules of the Trek universe don't seem to care much about forum rules.

[Dwidian]

It seems to me this is what the space stations will be for.

[LordDave]

Holodeck Arena Player Crews.

Quick, Easy, Insertable into the current game mechanics, doesn't require a game worth of content per station, and it expandable to infinity without messing up the gaming universe.

Sadly, only like 2 people on this entire forum actually liked the idea. Pity really.


And Var, the new mods are going to see what's going on. I think when we finally get to the huge flame war, THEN they'll wise up. Until then, we have to teach them that Razor's word was wise.

[callsign11b]

the idea has maret. and I for one will not knock it if its added into the game ship rp in the game for multi player in one ship system.
but I will not be doing it unless a lot of questions could be answered .
The questions are playablity.
the ship or station will have a capt. and command crew then department heads and the rest of the people of rank in departments.
now if you have to set up times to play as a group to get the full enjoyment of it.
also who determines postions and ranks of players if you get say 10 people starting at the same time.
then ship movement if you come to play and no one else in the command crew is there what will you do.
can only mess around at your players job for so long. and the ship can't go anywhere with out capt and bridge crew.
then comes conflict in space or away team missions who goes who stays, who decides.??
unfortunatly I see this system only working for 4 or 5 players tight group getting to do alot of great things and the rest just being back stage support.
so before I jump at that idea for myself these questions and more would have to be answered.

[Howard22]

It seems to me this is what the space stations will be for.

I have thought of that. And that does seem like a lot of fun. It might have to be where the role-playing will be done. And from there leave with guild-mates and do missions. Just thought it would be nice to also have a ship they could all jump on.


The real genius of this post is he use of "we have our cake and eat it to [sic]" -

The idiom derives from the concept that it is impossible to eat one's cake and still have the cake. It is a physical impossibility. In an ironic twist it is impossible to ask Cryptic to cater to your every whim and actually have the game produced.

The further irony is that they seem to be letting this group of people effectively "have their cake and eat it too" on the forums by not enforcing the previously established policy in regards to this very topic. Perhaps since Razor is now gone all the things he said are also null and void?

I'm sure someone will be along soon to properly chastise me stifling forum discussion. It is interesting that those who seem to want STO to adhere to the Trek "vision" and the rules of the Trek universe don't seem to care much about forum rules.

Look I'm not talking about the "Vision" per se. I just think it would be extremely fun to have guild ships and have player crews eventually on them. Im not advocating changing anything about how the game is going now, and I understand why everyone is a "captain". I just think there is a compromise, or ways that it can be done at a later date. This thread is for that discussion.

[Howard22]

the idea has maret. and I for one will not knock it if its added into the game ship rp in the game for multi player in one ship system.
but I will not be doing it unless a lot of questions could be answered .
The questions are playablity.
the ship or station will have a capt. and command crew then department heads and the rest of the people of rank in departments.
now if you have to set up times to play as a group to get the full enjoyment of it.
also who determines postions and ranks of players if you get say 10 people starting at the same time.
then ship movement if you come to play and no one else in the command crew is there what will you do.
can only mess around at your players job for so long. and the ship can't go anywhere with out capt and bridge crew.
then comes conflict in space or away team missions who goes who stays, who decides.??

so before I jump at that idea for myself these questions and more would have to be answered.

I understand exactly what you mean, and you have some really good questions.

I think the guild leader should be the one to set the restrictions or accessibility if you will for everyone in the guild. He puts how many people can "fly" the ship. These ships are also similar that if only one person is flying it, then their bridge crew just like the rest of the game take over the different stations. I suppose since cryptic stated that ships wont be destroyed, only incapacitated or whatever, that if something happens you just have to pay for extensive repairs to get it working again.....basically the same as all the other ships and how the game is going now.


unfortunatly I see this system only working for 4 or 5 players tight group getting to do alot of great things and the rest just being back stage support.

Yea, its not really meat for like 30+ people or something like that. But the idea is say you have a good size guild, like 50 people. And you are at your station. there are a couple that have access to the guil ship(or ships) and you decide to form a group of 5 and head off to do a mission.

[Trekkie]

I totally agree with you and think that this would be a great idea, but I think that having "guild ships" so to speak may undermine the "everyone is a captain" philosophy slightly.

[Howard22]

I totally agree with you and think that this would be a great idea, but I think that having "guild ships" so to speak may undermine the "everyone is a captain" philosophy slightly.

I don't want to undermine, so i hope it doesn't come off as that way. But maybe think of guild ships being something that takes a lot of time and collective effort to get. Like a Titan in EvE or something. Of course not taking months years....but i think you get my analogy. Like I said, might be more geared toward end game content. Thats my idea of it anyway, but i welcome all suggestions. I just want a good discussion about this subject.

[callsign11b]

I see what your getting at.
I can see if for example a guild builds a spacestation then you have the guild leader as the admirl. so he commands the station if he wants to or deligates command to someone else in the upper ranks of the guld.
then you have your command staff running the day to day operations of the guild station.
have a planning staff for defense and or attacking sectors stations planets. ie recce, spying, planning.
then you will also have ship building and repair then you would have engineering players.
as well tech reserch and development and reverse engineering alien tech.
as well have outposts and defence stations commanded by rp players crew.
that way you do not have to worry if someone can play on a certain night or day because the base doesn't move from place to place.
as well these places could have runabouts, scouts even a escort or two for people who want to capt. small 1 to 4 person groups.
and the above all bases witll still have capt. of ships coming and going, having temp. quarters waiting for supplies repairs ect. to there ships.
but thats off the top of my head there is still alot of problems to be worked out in a system like that.

[Howard22]

how do you delete this, i double posted.

[DerManiac]

Basically, I've posted something like this twice already, but didn't get any response..

Here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=303563#post303563

just had this idea:
after academy you getting your ship and your NPC crew. you start as ensign and as you progress you can only Command NPCs of the same or lower rank. but you are not allowed to Command PC ships. when you reach the rank commander (which schould take you some time) you should be able to choose to Command a starbase (like DS9). this is equivalent to choosing to create a "guild".this starbase should be Player crew controllable. It acts as a kind of "guilde-house". You choose your officers out of your recruited "guild-members", which are allowed to manage the base. this means, They can anytime go to ops and replace the crew-npcs. "guilde-members" are allowed to dock their own ships anytime, or borrow a runabout. non-members only with the proper clearence.
Once you reach captain, you should get a "guild-ship" which is a bigger and more powerfull ship (maybe with some special abilities), with a number of minimum-player-crew members. so the captain cantel just fly It on his own. Also, his most trusted officers can Command It, if he's not there. if not used, It is permanently docked to the station (like the defiant). during he rises in rank, more and more powerful ships can be obtained, each with It's minimum of crew-players (id say from 1-10) and a minimum of rankc for the commander. (so if the "guild leader" is admiral, and They own a uber-ship that needs to be commanded by an admiral, his fellow "guild member" of rank captain cant take It for a ride, even if the admiral would allow It. of course the starbase can be upgraded as well.


and here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=183490#post183490

We already know that fleets will be able to create space stations. Why not let fleets also have special fleet-ships, which can only be used by a certain amount of players, depending on the kind of vessel. The ship would, if not used, be permanently docked to the station (like the Defiant to DS9).
Then there should be special Fleet missions, which are rare, long, story driven, and just special. It would be like a fleet's party. Put a crew together with like 6 people, hop in the fleet ship and go on a fleet mission. If one position has nothing to do at some point, that won't be a problem, cause he's with his fleet - his friends. He has people to talk to, can explore the ship (which he rarely gets to see, since it's only used for special occasions) or just wait, while the tense is building up, because they are approaching something big.
While the fleet is getting bigger/older/higher ranked, they gain access to bigger, better or just different fleet ships. Some smaller fleet ships, might be operated by 2 people, and used for small fleet-missions. Other ships need at least 4 crewman, another one has a minimum of six. These can be used for bigger and more epic missions. There should also be some posts that give "spare players" something to do. Like coordinate security. If helm has to leave the game, this one can take over, since coordinating security isn't such high priority.

I think it would work, and it wouldn't change the core gameplay, which makes it an excellent candidate for a later update feature.

[onesoul1982]

For me personally, If this idea is implimented in the future, I won't be partaking in it.

It would seem that the game would turn into more of a job,than signing on to have fun.

As for there being a lack of content for "end gamers" I doubt it. I think there will be plenty of story line missions available and possibly even an mission generator, so the possibility of being bored is unlikely. Besides its freakin' Star Trek. lol go Discover a new alien race or be the first to do something.


Just my 2 bars of latinum

[helldiver]

I don't want to undermine, so i hope it doesn't come off as that way. But maybe think of guild ships being something that takes a lot of time and collective effort to get. Like a Titan in EvE or something. Of course not taking months years....but i think you get my analogy. Like I said, might be more geared toward end game content. Thats my idea of it anyway, but i welcome all suggestions. I just want a good discussion about this subject.

I'm the type that welcomes new ideas and such. However;

ok boss, explain to me something. So I join your guild, I spend my play time aboard the USS XYZ (a galaxy class vessel) as a captain, collecting Widgets by the truck load in order to "help the guild".

We finally have 1,000,000,000 of these widgets and now one of the Guild officers (because me being an in-game captain means nothing to a guild which makes up their own ranks anyways) hits a button or two or three (or perhaps an even more elaborate and monutnous process) and viola, we get a "guild ship".

One guy alone can't pilot this guild ship, he needs all of us to help him man it?

So here are my questions:
1) Where in the Star Trek lore have you seen such a thing? Sorry I haven't seen all of TOS, TNG, and have missed a few DP9. I've missed any ship of the sort you speak of.

They suggested a space station, that makes sense.

2) I understand the roleplay reasons behind it, not knocking it. But why would I want to spend my play time collecting all those widgets (as well as other guildmates) so that we can build a multi-crewed ship of the same caliber as one we'd get through normal progression?

-That means that your ship you're suggesting has to be better or has to be essential to some game function. Meaning, if I don't spend all that time collecting widgets, I'll miss out on that aspect of the game?

3) Who captains the ship? Who's in charge? You? So you have a behemoth of a ship that's difficult to fit in the canon, crewed by captains... who are underneath a captain who has no power other than that he's highly motivated and managed to get all these suckers on board?

4) That means in order to fit the idea with what's been released from Cryptic, we'd have to bat down the size of the ship so that it fits continuity. Meaning, your "guild" ship will be the Galaxies, Soveriegns and ships of that rate.

-That means in order for me to get into a Galaxy, I have to join your guild (or similar). Put up with all the minutae throughout my gaming career (maybe even have to be involved in some sort of "DKP" system so I get my turn at it). Eventually getting a chance to be a crew onboard your ship, just to get to see it. If I'm lucky and have the time, I'd be named "Guild Officer" and you might let me captain one of them, and assign a bunch of player-monkeys as my crew.

If I was to digest this in its entirety...

You either want Multi-crewed ships, or you're asking that the End-Game ships or the big ships (Sovereign, Galaxy) be made "guild only", which is really just another cat in a bag of the Multi-crewing idea.

-The developers have said no, there will be no multi-crewing for the time being. I'm certain we'll have Galaxies and Sovereigns long before any sort of Multi-crew content is implemented, as I'm sure there are players dedicated enough to grind it out so that they can be running around in a ship of the line.

-Locking those ships out to guilds is the same thing as Multi-crews, but it's a different gimick. Instead of standing around as a crew member, I have to join a guild and put up with what ever nonsense the virtual officers tell me to do, so I can have a chance at the large ships. I've had to put up with enough of that crap in games such as WoW, Everquest 1 and Everquest 2, Lineage 2, and any game that locked away their End-Game content into Raids and the massive Guilds needed to do the raids.

If that's what the developers end up doing, then I'm out. I'm certain based on prior discussions over this very topic, other would be out as well.

I'm not trying to flame you or anything, maybe I don't understand your post or what you are wanting. You mentioned Eve, I played eve quite a bit. That's a completely different premise and a completely different world. In Eve, the "setting" doesn't assume you're already an accomplished graduated Federation (or Klingon) officer on a ship of renown (akira, intrepid, excelsior, etc).
It assumes you're some scum trying to work his way into the large foodchain that is the universe of Eve. You start in a small pocket frigate and work your way up. Titan's and such being the end game because in that setting and in that universe thats the premise. With Star Trek the developer doesn't have that neverending ship size freedom.

[jayrelo]

The real genius of this post is he use of "we have our cake and eat it to [sic]" -

The idiom derives from the concept that it is impossible to eat one's cake and still have the cake. It is a physical impossibility. In an ironic twist it is impossible to ask Cryptic to cater to your every whim and actually have the game produced.

The further irony is that they seem to be letting this group of people effectively "have their cake and eat it too" on the forums by not enforcing the previously established policy in regards to this very topic. Perhaps since Razor is now gone all the things he said are also null and void?

I'm sure someone will be along soon to properly chastise me stifling forum discussion. It is interesting that those who seem to want STO to adhere to the Trek "vision" and the rules of the Trek universe don't seem to care much about forum rules.

for what its worth... this.

i'll stand with ya var!

[marscentral]

For me personally, If this idea is implimented in the future, I won't be partaking in it.

It would seem that the game would turn into more of a job,than signing on to have fun.

As for there being a lack of content for "end gamers" I doubt it. I think there will be plenty of story line missions available and possibly even an mission generator, so the possibility of being bored is unlikely. Besides its freakin' Star Trek. lol go Discover a new alien race or be the first to do something.


Just my 2 bars of latinum

I agree. If that was endgame content, I'd want my money back. I get to go from dynamic Captain of my own vessel to stand about ascrew on someone elses. Sounds more like a demotion to me. I think I prefer a Fleet to be a Fleet. It's only my opinion, but since there are no levels, I don't think there will be an endgame as such anyway.

I also take Helldiver's point that it's not exactly canon either.

The real genius of this post is he use of "we have our cake and eat it to [sic]" -

The idiom derives from the concept that it is impossible to eat one's cake and still have the cake. It is a physical impossibility. In an ironic twist it is impossible to ask Cryptic to cater to your every whim and actually have the game produced.

The further irony is that they seem to be letting this group of people effectively "have their cake and eat it too" on the forums by not enforcing the previously established policy in regards to this very topic. Perhaps since Razor is now gone all the things he said are also null and void?

I'm sure someone will be along soon to properly chastise me stifling forum discussion. It is interesting that those who seem to want STO to adhere to the Trek "vision" and the rules of the Trek universe don't seem to care much about forum rules.

I'm wondering if the ban applies any more myself as a number of threads have cropped up and been ignored by mods. Some official confirmation would be nice. If people really want to carry on saying the same exact things about something that isn't happening anyway, who am I to judge?