Fleet battles

[LordNoctis]

Ok, we know that things between the Federation and the Klingons are not going in a very peaceful manner, and there is also the matter of the Borg. So we know there will likely be some fleet battles.

My question is, how big will some of these battles be? Do you guys think we will see huge battles like in
DS9, or will they be a bit smaller scale, like in Star Trek Legacy?

Let us speculate.

[CasiusOntius]

Probably both.

Depending on the battle, where it takes place, and how many players are in an area at one time, a battle could be something as small as one on one, or as big as two fleets pitting against one another.

[RockyM]

Yeah I imagine it being a bit similar to the mmo Pirates of the Burning Sea... but in Space ! :)
Can be large battles, depending on the location (like at a main port) and the organisation of grouping pre-battle !
or Just small piddly little pew-pew battles if someone cuts someone else off with their ship :)

[JamesDBurke]

I would guess that Cryptic would have to balance the amount of on screen ships with what the expected PC requirements of the game will be. Too many ships on screen will = lag, and that is the death of an MMO. Everybody wants amazingly detailed models, but does everyone have the Alienware PC to run those kinds of specs? Probably not.

We'll probably see 18 ship scenarios as the big fleet battles at first, and most likely those will be at the end of an extended quest/mission chain.

PvP areas will probably have most of their areas centered around 'defend Outpost X from the enemy faction" concepts so as to allow direct confrontation between the Feds and the Klingons.

[Haegemon]

Ok, we know that things between the Federation and the Klingons are not going in a very peaceful manner, and there is also the matter of the Borg. So we know there will likely be some fleet battles.

My question is, how big will some of these battles be? Do you guys think we will see huge battles like in
DS9, or will they be a bit smaller scale, like in Star Trek Legacy?

Let us speculate.


I supose it will depend on how the faction game is designed. If it's posible to join the eforts of diferent players or groups of them, from both factions at the same spot in a fluid manner, then will be huge battles.
It should be done in a manner that to defend a post only had recieved the alert a number credible of ships not all the federation. This way you prevent all ships going from one point to another at the same time and keep the posibility of defese along an imaginary frontier.

[ParkerHayden]

It depends on the area, time of day, and the dedication of fleets in PvP.

When STO comes out, Gemini Fleet should have over 20 ships (and rising). So, assuming everyone in our fleet was on at the same time (hard considering some of us are in North America, while others are in Europe or Australia) and we ended up finding a fleet of Klingon ships of similar size, then that should be a pretty decent-sized battle.

[smbrenn]

POTBS is my guess as well. Perhaps they could build in a direct voice software, i would assume its in the works due to the xbox release.

[Haegemon]

It depends on the area, time of day, and the dedication of fleets in PvP.

When STO comes out, Gemini Fleet should have over 20 ships (and rising). So, assuming everyone in our fleet was on at the same time (hard considering some of us are in North America, while others are in Europe or Australia) and we ended up finding a fleet of Klingon ships of similar size, then that should be a pretty decent-sized battle.


Greetings commander, I think Gemini Fleet, Aries Fleet, Ninth Fleet, Lotus Fleet and all fleets in cyberspace are waitting impatiently to pass from text simulations to the action. ;)

[ParkerHayden]

Greetings commander, I think Gemini Fleet, Aries Fleet, Ninth Fleet, Lotus Fleet and all fleets in cyberspace are waitting impatiently to pass from text simulations to the action. ;)
Heh, an armada combining the major Federation fleets of STO against the major fleets of the Klingon Empire.

So epic, the server would crash.

[Rangerrob]

There are still a lot of questions to be answered on this "Fleet battles" front.

1) Will the battles be instanced?

2) How many ships per side will be allowed to enter the instanced battle? 6 per side, 8? 24? A cap/limit might be key to help with factions that have smaller numbers.

3) Will there be a time limit to enter a battle?

4) Can "Fleets" be split when two members of a "Fleet" are attacked in different places. (Splitting groups and changing numbers in your favor, this was a primary tactic of the "Pirate" players in PotBS...they later changed it so an entire fleet was pulled into an instance, rather than having to manuver your ship to the point of the map where the intanced battle was taking place.)

5) How will cloaks work...no so much in the actual battle, but they could be very important to the setup and starting of battles.

Not really looking for answers, just throwing stuff out there for folks to think about.

[RockyM]

Stick `em in the Ask Cryptic thread :P

[LordNoctis]

Your all forgetting another major question. The overall effect Fleet Battles will have on various factions. It likely would not be a simple matter of "Lets go shoot some Klingons," Instead, there should be some benefit to these battles aside from shooting people to hell and back.

Like gaining territory, draining other peoples resources.

There should also be more tactical stuff, like with communications and what not.

For example, lets say to the F faction and the K faction are hammering the $#!^ out of each other in one system or another, and the F faction is winning. The K faction calls for reinforcements from their base. The F faction should have the chance to intercept this message and establish a blocade to stop the reinforcements.

[Rangerrob]

Stick `em in the Ask Cryptic thread :P

Nah...most of those will be answered/adjusted/changed in beta. :D

[RockyM]

Nah...most of those will be answered/adjusted/changed in beta. :D

True but hey it could give us something to gnaw on for the mean time :P

[Trekkie]

Most battles will probably be in smaller scale, but I think that will make the large-scale battles - like those at the culmination of particularly difficult or random invasions - even more epic.

[callsign11b]

i think battle sizes will be small as one on one to huge size maybe even up to more than one clan per side.
like a major fleet action might include federation 2nd fleet and 5th fleet clans against the klingon house clans.
would all depentd on how many players are online where there at where the battle takes place and if its a organized planed attacted or counter attack.

[Swordopolis]

For example, lets say to the F faction and the K faction are hammering the $#!^ out of each other in one system or another, and the F faction is winning. The K faction calls for reinforcements from their base. The F faction should have the chance to intercept this message and establish a blocade to stop the reinforcements.

Somewhat feasible, though dependent on how long the transit times end up being in the finished product.

Though, if we're provided with any sort of map which doesn't frequently fluctuate, you could see these sort of tactics unfold without having to intercept communications.

[LordNoctis]

True, but the point is there should be more to the strategy than just how to blow the other ship up.

[SiskoBell]

Ok, we know that things between the Federation and the Klingons are not going in a very peaceful manner, and there is also the matter of the Borg. So we know there will likely be some fleet battles.

My question is, how big will some of these battles be? Do you guys think we will see huge battles like in
DS9, or will they be a bit smaller scale, like in Star Trek Legacy?

Let us speculate.

Your all forgetting another major question. The overall effect Fleet Battles will have on various factions. It likely would not be a simple matter of "Lets go shoot some Klingons," Instead, there should be some benefit to these battles aside from shooting people to hell and back.

Like gaining territory, draining other peoples resources.

There should also be more tactical stuff, like with communications and what not.

For example, lets say to the F faction and the K faction are hammering the $#!^ out of each other in one system or another, and the F faction is winning. The K faction calls for reinforcements from their base. The F faction should have the chance to intercept this message and establish a blocade to stop the reinforcements.

I wholeheartedly agree that PvP battles / fleet engagements should have a purpose. If I understand the direction Cryptic is headed, it seems that Faction battles in PvP space will serve a tangible purpose.

Somewhat feasible, though dependent on how long the transit times end up being in the finished product.

Though, if we're provided with any sort of map which doesn't frequently fluctuate, you could see these sort of tactics unfold without having to intercept communications.

Going off Sword's point, as I interpret Cryptic's plan so far, there will be planets and systems in PvP space that offer valuable commodities, technological resources, and diplomatic prizes. As players and fleets explore PvP space, it will be in there vital interests to protect the areas they claim.

For instance, as a Federation Fleet commander, once my fleet sets up mining operations and diplomatic missions in a PvP sector, I would order my fleet to defend our assets there. This means that if a Klingon force tries to take on of our mining systems by force, we'd repel them.

Strategy comes into play in figuring out hoe best to remove the Klingon threat. We could try avoiding contact only except when the Klingons actually fire on our planet. Or we could decide to try to attack one of there nearby bases, to prevent them from repairing their ships.

If the map is static as Sword suggested, undoubtedly there will be certain planets and locations that are strategically important. Lets say a particular sector contains 20 mine-able systems, but only 5 of which can support a starbase, or repair facility. In such cases, there will probably be many instances where a single system is located such that it is within reach or many mine-able resources, and can support a starbase. This world would become the main focus of combat in the sector. Both sides would understand that controlling that world would be key to holding the whole sector.

But of course, we need to see what Cryptic is planning regarding strategy and combat.

As I alluded to above, I think an important consideration is the notion that certain worlds and systems will offer benefits unique to those worlds. Think of Star Wars: Empire at War. Certain planets were worth holding because they conferred unique advantages. The other main aid to strategy in EAW was that certain planets were connected by particular space lanes. STO probably won't have this issue as warping is a lot more flexible that going through hyperspace.

STO could encourage similar strategic dynamics by including a "terrain" of sorts on the galactic map. Perhaps key worlds are seperated by a Mutara Class nebula. Thus, most players would chose to travel around the nebula to reach the other world, avoiding potential damage along the way. But it might make strategic sense in some cases to fly through the nebula. Other areas might contain subspace fissures that prevent warping, or at least slow it down. Still other areas might be controlled by non-aligned NPC groups that prevent or restrict quick passage through to the target world.

But to your overall point LordNoctis, I suspect fleet battles will be as large as they can be, given technological restraints. Be it lag, or a hard limit set by Cryptic, where only a certain number of ships can occupy a certain volume of space, there will be some limit. I think (and hope) that we'll see battles with enough ships to bump against whatever that limit might be.

[LordNoctis]

Ok SiskoBell, I agree with everything you are saying. But there are other strategy related things to consider.
For example, lets say you are already besieged by an enemy fleet. Now somehow you learn that the enemy has a large number of reinforcements on their way, like on DS9 during the dominion war.

As things stand you have a fighting chance, but once those reinforcements arrive you will be heavily outnumbered, and while most of your ships are damaged, the new arrivals are fresh.

In most MMO's you would have to run away at this point, or get the unholy **** pounded out of you. But what we need here, is the ability to contact other fleets within the Federation, ask them for help. For example, lets say your with the UFP fleet, you might call the Red Shirts Fleet to back you up.

Supposing they decided to help you, there would be a new choice. Do you have them reinforce you directly? Or would it be better to send them to block enemy rienforcements from ever arriving?

This is the sort of strategy that this game needs. That way it gives a more immersive feeling.

[Interdictor]

I don't have much experience with many MMOs, but I do know back in tha day when I binged on CoH/V, the better part of a server coming together to lay the smackdown on some huge threat like Hamidon or a Rikti Dropship Assault - boy did it feel epic - lag be damned! :D

[Hagon]

It would be gret if this discussion could be merged into the stickied PvP thread. Most of the suggestions here mirror many that have been made in there for quite awhile now.