Make the Borg/Dominion semi-playable al la LotR

[Aslan_chShran]

I've NEVER played Lord of the Rings Online, but apparently they have a feature where you can play monsters and kill players. Maybe this could work for STO - you couldn't sit and play the Borg/Dominion 24-7, but by unlocking content, you could access special features that would allow a player or group of players to take over Borg Cubes or Dominion ships temporarily (maybe a cue that sets you up and waits for a player to enter a certain mission, and when they do you get zapped into a Cube?)?

Just an idea... I don't know how often I'd do that but I know others want to play Borg, etc. so this might be an interesting idea.

[Father_Origin]

ok, this might be like pulling off a bandage off your arm 'if you have a lot of hair there'
just pull it quickly and get it over with.


Ready?


>>>> NO <<<<

was that so bad?

[jayrelo]

its an interesting idear, i will give it that, but the borg are a unique situation in that they are characters that can never be played by PC's. i mean, they don't have minds of their own.

now, actually, i should never say never, who knows what cryptic can do, but i can assure you, borg play will not happen for quite some time.

[UfcFan78]

Holodeck or the like might work.

[jayrelo]

Holodeck or the like might work.

didn't think of that obvious one.

with the holodeck, i say let everyone have their cake, and let them eat it as well. but i still think, at the very least, it would be way down the road...

[Deyvid]

I've NEVER played Lord of the Rings Online, but apparently they have a feature where you can play monsters and kill players. Maybe this could work for STO - you couldn't sit and play the Borg/Dominion 24-7, but by unlocking content, you could access special features that would allow a player or group of players to take over Borg Cubes or Dominion ships temporarily (maybe a cue that sets you up and waits for a player to enter a certain mission, and when they do you get zapped into a Cube?)?

Just an idea... I don't know how often I'd do that but I know others want to play Borg, etc. so this might be an interesting idea.

Actually in LOTRO, the Monster-Play characters are always available to players. Once a player reaches level 10 with a regular character (one of the "good guys", the Free Peoples of Middle-earth, or "Freeps") then they unlock the ability to create a Monster-Play character (the evil forces of Sauron, or "Creeps"). From that point on, the player can abandon their regular Freep characters and only play as the Monster-Play characters 24-7. (Although they'd be confined to the PvP zone, so most players keep their regular "good guy" characters and then have a few monster characters for PvP).

What you are referring to is called "Session Play" where during PvMP (Player vs. Monster-Player), a player can temporarily play as a Troll or a Ranger in the PvP zone. The Trolls and Rangers are more powerful than the regular Freeps and Creeps, and can only be played for a limited amount of time by an individual player. Those Trolls and Rangers do not "level up" or advance, and the player does not "keep" the Troll or Ranger, it's temporary for that play session (hence, Session Play). I think there's a 24-hour cool down, meaning if I were to enter the PvP zone and do whatever is necessary to play as a Troll or Ranger, then after I played that Troll or Ranger I'd have to wait another 24 hours before I could play one again (but another player would be able to play as each player has their own cooldown on the PVP Session Play).

There's also a fun little "mini-game" utilizing the Session Play system where players can play a series of quests as a chicken -- that's right, a chicken. It's goofy, but surprisingly fun. You interact with and combat other animals through-out Middle-earth. Anyone can start chicken-play at any time, and there's no cooldown limit after playing as a chicken, but there's a limit of only 50 chicken-players at any one time on a given server. (So if there's already 50 people playing as a chicken on the Brandywine server, you'd have to wait until one of them ends their chicken-play session, or you could switch to another server and try there.) Completing all the chicken-play quests gives the player rewards to their main character, but the last few quests are long and difficult so it's quite an accomplishment and people display their chicken-play rewards proudly.


It's a cool system that could be incorporated into STO, but I don't know how well it would work with the Borg. Borg drones that are connected to the Collective hive-mind are not autonomous, they don't go off and do their own thing, and half the time we saw the Borg drones they ignored the Starfleet crew. That wouldn't be very fun to just walk passed the Federation players and go access control panels or stand in the regeneration chamber thing. When they did engage the Federation personnel, they only walked and didn't run.

The only Borg we saw that were individuals with "free will" were the ones disconnected from the Collective, like Hugh. But those Borgs that were given individuality by the Enterprise crew didn't fare so well, becoming confused and unable to function, leaving them vulnerable to Lore.

Perhaps Cryptic could draw from those individualized Borgs that followed Hugh and defeated Lore, and let players play as those individualized Borg, but then they wouldn't be part of the Collective, and probably wouldn't be working on the behalf of the Collective (instead working for themselves as individuals). This may be cool for some, but other Borg fans may not feel like it is a true Borg experience.

[jayrelo]

This may be cool for some, but other Borg fans may not feel like it is a true Borg experience.

if they want the true borg experience, gimme a call, i'll have em clean up my townhouse and make them my forced labor workforce at my business. providing healthcare is expensive, so the government can assimilate that baby.

heck, i'll even spray paint their face white. :p

in all seriousness, a true borg experience when you really think about it... isn't that fun.

[Toaster87]

TBH i think some people only want the borg in the game so they can say "hahaha look at the size of my ship compared to yours and it takes about 50 ships to desrtoy me.....I R WINZOR!!!!" (e-peni extends rapidly) and then be able to say "resistance is futile" (e-peni erupts)

Personally i think the borg should only be NPC controlled but it is a very interesting idea that this thread has discussed.

[jayrelo]

I R WINZOR!!!!" (e-peni extends rapidly) and then be able to say "resistance is futile" (e-peni erupts)


hopefully only in their own (left) eye.


hey peoples, i didn't start this. :rolleyes:

[Fernos]

ok, this might be like pulling off a bandage off your arm 'if you have a lot of hair there'
just pull it quickly and get it over with.


Ready?


>>>> NO <<<<

was that so bad?



THIS^

...

[Aslan_chShran]

So, let me get this straight, LotR, which is a MMORPG that make consider an excellent MMORPG, has a feature where you can play creatures - which again is well received, yet when I post the possibility as an idea (because people would like to play these NPC races, at least temporarily if not perminantly), the idea is considered by some as akin to something extremely painful? Uh-huh, glad some of you feel that way *false applause*

[jayrelo]

So, let me get this straight, LotR, which is a MMORPG that make consider an excellent MMORPG, has a feature where you can play creatures - which again is well received, yet when I post the possibility as an idea (because people would like to play these NPC races, at least temporarily if not perminantly), the idea is considered by some as akin to something extremely painful? Uh-huh, glad some of you feel that way *false applause*

well, i'm not one of the ones who super went there to tear your idea up, i kinda liked it, but honestly. i'm not in the tent that says its fun being told what to do, having no independent thought or will, sit and recharge half the time, and then walk around aimlessly doing stuff on consoles or doing scans. whatever the heck they do.

and not be able to sit, run, or make teh beautiful love. no personality... i dunno man, all the things the borg are... just seems to be a recipe for disaster when you think of it in PC terms. I mean, do borg even talk to each other? aren't they all one voice? how do you get around that?

the 'false applause' bro and snide remark about how everybody doesn't think like you, c'mon buddy... if someone disagree's with you, take it like a man and don't get all wanh wanh on us.

:p

and look on the brightside, you could've been called much more gregarious names since we have tons of threads on the borg to begin with.

take everything with a grain of salt bro. :)

[Profedius]

I really do not see a way to bring the Borg into player control since they are controlled by the collective even in a monster play mode having more then one Borg controlled entity would break the feel of the Borg and the single mindedness of them.

I could see the Dominion as a future playable race since they take orders from the Founders, but still have addiction/genetic controlled free will.

The monster play feature in Lord of the Rings Online was a step in the right direction, but I think they didn’t go far enough with the concept having the limited area of play became very boring what would have been better would be to allow players to play monsters in all areas of the would, but limit the level of monster that could be played in each area to closely match the level of players in that area. I for one have never been a big fan of PvP, but as I play each new game I become increasingly tired of the mindless NPCs running up to my aviator and then just stand there swinging until they or I am dead. I guess I can’t say I enjoy the PvP side where the other players jump around my aviator in circles believing that action makes any difference as to wither or not I can hit them.

I just really do not see a way to make Borg playable that would seem fitting given the nature of their power and if I see one ship take on a cube and defeat it I will not be able to find the cancel account button fast enough.

[Aslan_chShran]

That's the point of the idea - the Borg would NOT be a "playable race" it would be a race that a player could temporarily control for a brief time - like during a battle, or to try to hinder a player's progress, etc. You wouldn't be taking control of a Borg, or doing typical missions. You could even take over a Borg Cube and get a mission like "destroy this group of ships" and once its done you finish and can't play the Borg for another 24 hours, maybe earn some points toward something. Just ideas toward playing certain 'evil' species while at the same time NOT making them a race you can chose and play 24-7.

[Profedius]

My point was that a player controlling the Borg in a monster play situation would mean that more then one Borg entity would have to be running around at the same time and I for one can not see anyway that we could have even 3 Borg cubes in the same area without creating a no win situation.

[UfcFan78]

I R WINZOR!!!!"



Dude.......you just gave me the name of my ship.....thanks, lol.















j/k :D

[jagerbolt]

My point was that a player controlling the Borg in a monster play situation would mean that more then one Borg entity would have to be running around at the same time and I for one can not see anyway that we could have even 3 Borg cubes in the same area without creating a no win situation.

Agreed. It's a cool concept but if the Borg were playable then lets face it EVERYONE would want to try it out at least once and that means the Borg would lose their status as a major power as Borg ships would constantly be around and being destroyed. Not to mention some people just wouldn't take it seriously. "Oh look it's another cube. And wow this guy has no idea what he's doing. He's just flying around in circles."

Any cube(s) that enters Klingon/Fed space should be on a 1 way course to the home world and should require a fleet wide assault in order to take it/them out. More of like a rare event. Sometimes things are best in moderation.

Now - I wouldn't be opposed to somehow incorporating this into a mission. Perhaps the player encounters a drone who is recently free from the collective. He explains to you how his distant home world was attacked and assimilated by the Borg, which in turn triggers a 'flashback' memory which allows the player to be the Cube and play out the 'mission' where we get to obliterate the alien fleet/defenses and assault the planet. Once done we'd resume the story back on our own ship. It'd satisfy the player's cravings for playing the Borg (we all want to try it out) and it doesn't ruin the Borg's image as something you don't take lightly.

[Deyvid]

the Borg would NOT be a "playable race" it would be a race that a player could temporarily control for a brief time

That defines a playable race. Any race or character that a player can control or play, even for only 30 seconds, is a "playable race" or "playable character."

I think the main hurdle that everyone can't get over, is that the "true" Borg would basically be a drone with no independent thought or will. Players controlling a Borg, even for just a few minutes and not intending to "keep" that Borg, would want some independent free will, to attempt a mission with their own strategy, acting as a single entity. If the Borg were from that small group that were given individuality by the Enterprise, then it may work; but if they were still part of the Collective then the player wouldn't have much choice in how to carry out the mission or attack, and they would have to be part of a multitude.

Imagine a flock of birds, or a school of fish, the players playing Borg would have to conform to the overall flock or school. The individual fish or bird doesn't really have an individual independent choice which way to swim or fly, they go with the collective. Most players playing as a Borg would want to be able to go their own way, not following the school or flock. If the flock or school went left and up, they'd want to be able to go right and down if they wanted to. Just change the flying or swimming into walking (not running) on the ground as a Borg instead of a fish or bird. So controlling an individual Borg (even temporarily) but still being part of the Collective poses a difficult challenge for the developers. Whatever they come up with as a compromise, some Borg fans may like it, while some Borg fans may dislike it for not being "true" Borg.

Now, taking control of a Borg cube or sphere for a one-time mission, with the goal of destroying / disabling / assimilating a Federation or Klingon starbase, while the other player-controlled ships try to fend off that Borg cube/sphere, might be interesting and doable -- since it moves away from a single individual Borg but would be as if that Borg cube/sphere were made up of a many Borgs acting together.

The only way I can see a player controlling Borgs on the ground level would be to give them a small squad of Borg, like 3 or 5 or 7 Borgs that the player controls as a unit with all of them performing the action or command from the player. It would be like when Hugh was Third of Five, or Seven of Nine, the player would be controlling that small unit of Five or Nine Borg. That would start resembling a squad based game like Rainbow Six or an RTS. I'm not sure how well that could be incorporated into an MMO.

[vargo911]

How about being a ex-borg like 7 of 9. You have the looks of a borg but not a borg anymore. :)

[Toaster87]

How about being a ex-borg like 7 of 9. You have the looks of a borg but not a borg anymore. :)

So you could have some characterisitics of the borg for the character but still be a playable race such as a human/trill/klingon?....very interesting. It could work but there would have to be some sort of penalty for the approved characteristics of that race. e.g. They could be better at the tactical station but they shoot at anything that could be a threat......such as another battle ready ship of a different race.

[Dext]

Humm let me thnk sorry but NOOOOOOO!!!!! to this

unless your one of the Borg that was freed like hue from TNG

[Dext]

AN to the LOTR thing is for your PvP thing so that there can be PvP

[TruthSeer]

I've NEVER played Lord of the Rings Online, but apparently they have a feature where you can play monsters and kill players. Maybe this could work for STO - you couldn't sit and play the Borg/Dominion 24-7, but by unlocking content, you could access special features that would allow a player or group of players to take over Borg Cubes or Dominion ships temporarily (maybe a cue that sets you up and waits for a player to enter a certain mission, and when they do you get zapped into a Cube?)?

Just an idea... I don't know how often I'd do that but I know others want to play Borg, etc. so this might be an interesting idea.

I'm going to say no because:
1) I don't like the idea of playable Borg, and
2) If they implement a system like what LoTRO has basically means they will never have them in a full capacity and I really want the Dominion, not some watered down version but a full blown version.
3) Let them release factions (Romulans, Dominion, Tholian) as they see fit when they are ready.

[thefreshjedi]

How about being a ex-borg like 7 of 9. You have the looks of a borg but not a borg anymore. :)

Sorry to rain on the parade, but...

This whole thread is not a new concept. I can agree with most that say no, for no other reason that the Borg, per canon were mindless drones. The queen seemed to be the only borg with a mind of her own, but even she was hardwired to the system.

Ex-borgs, or hybrids would be the only way to go. But they would have to have major limitations with regard to Borg-like abilities. I.e., they would no longer be-able to adapt for example. They would be stripped of much of their abilities to the point that I think they would almost be like playing any other character really.

It's for these same reasons that androids would not be a viable choice really either, simply because they have abilities which make them nearly super-humanoid to some extent. I could see an android maybe as a special "pet" or additional NPC crewmember, but I don't see them as being a likely choice for individual avatar creation.


-Avery

[Deyvid]

That seems to be the issue. To make them playable as an individuals, then they'd have to be disconnected from the Collective, which means they wouldn't be connected to all the powers and abilities of the Collective, so they basically wouldn't really be a "true" Borg.

The Borg drones that were disconnected and given individuality by the Enterprise and Hugh, they didn't turn out so well. Either they were mentally dysfunctional (they'd get confused and lack focus and direction) or they'd be emotionally dysfunctional like the ones that Lore dealt with.

It just doesn't really seem feasible to deliver a "true Borg experience" and still make it fun for players to play as individual characters.

Maybe when they release the expansion that adds the Romulans and Dominion, they could add cybernetic components to the "build a custom alien" options so that players could create a new custom alien race that has chosen to incorporate cybernetic implants and components which could give some bonuses along the lines of telepathy but something else related to the implants. That would let players play as cyborg characters but not need to fit it into the Borg lore/canon.

[Trekkie]

I still don't think that it is a great idea to allow players to play such powerful races, but I think if something like this was implemented right it could definitely be a neat feature. I just hope that the developers would do something to ensure that players wouldn't abuse the power that they would achieve were they allowed to play a member of the Borg Collective or another powerful faction, because I could definitely see it becoming a method for "griefing" other players.