Fleet player limit?

[RyanRosco]

Since this is going to be a in-game fleet/clan design. Is there going to be a cap on how many players are going to be allowed in one particular fleet? And if so what do you think a acceptable cap limit will be?

I know that 90% of games that have a in-game clan design have a cap because they pool resources. And if one clan/fleet is uber powerful or large that there is no reason to start a new fleet.

[Lt.Renak]

I think 100 player per fleet would be oK.

[Typheron]

Like you said, most games have a cap on fleet/clan/faction members, so i would expect one in STO.

as for numbers, 100-150 is normally good. Depends on if you like to have Alts.

[Mad-Max]

Like you said, most games have a cap on fleet/clan/faction members, so i would expect one in STO.

as for numbers, 100-150 is normally good. Depends on if you like to have Alts.

1000 is good.

[Hagon]

I really don't see a point in putting in a cap. Any fleet that wants to grow beyond a given cap will just form subsequent fleets in the game anyway, and in everything that matters will act as one large entity anyway as well.

[Markhottel]

1000 is good.
Ya a 1000 is good but i doubt any fleet will get that big =)

[jayrelo]

I really don't see a point in putting in a cap. Any fleet that wants to grow beyond a given cap will just form subsequent fleets in the game anyway, and in everything that matters will act as one large entity anyway as well.


yeah, like a task force, or a sub fleet if you will.

i like small fleets and small group rp, but i have nothing against unlimited fleets. let bygones be bygones. if there is a super uber fleet on the fed side, i'm pretty darn sure there will be one on the klingon side of things, so it'll all balance out.

[McManus]

Assuming this is a clan-based. Why restrict the size of fleets? It's morally wrong for one, if one clan is good and people want to join it who are we to say "No, you're too big now!"? and secondly people can get around that my making CLANTAG-1 / CLANTAG-2 so really it's flawed. Either way, it's wrong to restrict the growth of clans, if they get big and powerful then they get big and powerful.

[RyanRosco]

Well that is true to some point.
The reason they put a Cap limit is because a clan/fleet pool resources. And when they put that cap into place. It makes the Clan/Fleet start a expansion fleet. But they do not share the same resources.
It take alot of work to get expansion Clans/Fleets going. Even tho members can leave the fleet/clan to pool their personal resources into the the expansion clans resources it still takes work. It inhibits one massive fleet influx of resources.
For example, Lets say the Cap is 50 players.
And the fleet has 50 players. Then say 10 members leave to start the expansion clan. These 10 members are going to have to be resource wealthy to even do this quickly.

Once the primary clan looses the Income from those 10 members. It depletes and slows down their intake of resources. And the expansion clans resource pool is limited for a time till they recruit more players.
Game play time is less for the 10 players that leave. Due to recruiting an showing the new members how that clan wants them to operate. And for STO fleets, need bases. Which means all members of the expansion fleet will be spending all their resources on that.

Theororetically you can have 1 huge clan but it will all be segmented. Giving all players a equal oppertunity to start their own clan. And also to join up with their friends. Some people dont like how certain clan run or conduct themselves. So it would be unfair to just have one super clan that takes all of the new people and gets them into their clan because they have everything. Also some people just dont get along. And imagine being a clan leader with 10,000 users to attend to. Thats why they add caps.

I have played alot of MMO's in the past. There are more reasons than I just stated on why Clan caps are implemented. Thats why Almost every MMO that has In-game clans/fleets have a cap.

[Blackfire2]

I would agree, no limit should be imposed. As long as the guild master can manage a large membership, more power to them.

[jayrelo]

Well that is true to some point.
The reason they put a Cap limit is because a clan/fleet pool resources. And when they put that cap into place. It makes the Clan/Fleet start a expansion fleet. But they do not share the same resources.
It take alot of work to get expansion Clans/Fleets going. Even tho members can leave the fleet/clan to pool their personal resources into the the expansion clans resources it still takes work. It inhibits one massive fleet influx of resources.
For example, Lets say the Cap is 50 players.
And the fleet has 50 players. Then say 10 members leave to start the expansion clan. These 10 members are going to have to be resource wealthy to even do this quickly.

Once the primary clan looses the Income from those 10 members. It depletes and slows down their intake of resources. And the expansion clans resource pool is limited for a time till they recruit more players.
Game play time is less for the 10 players that leave. Due to recruiting an showing the new members how that clan wants them to operate. And for STO fleets, need bases. Which means all members of the expansion fleet will be spending all their resources on that.

Theororetically you can have 1 huge clan but it will all be segmented. Giving all players a equal oppertunity to start their own clan. And also to join up with their friends. Some people dont like how certain clan run or conduct themselves. So it would be unfair to just have one super clan that takes all of the new people and gets them into their clan because they have everything. Also some people just dont get along. And imagine being a clan leader with 10,000 users to attend to. Thats why they add caps.

I have played alot of MMO's in the past. There are more reasons than I just stated on why Clan caps are implemented. Thats why Almost every MMO that has In-game clans/fleets have a cap.

then perhaps the breaking off into expansion should be an ingame option to make it more efficient?

[ajaco3025]

I really don't see a point in putting in a cap. Any fleet that wants to grow beyond a given cap will just form subsequent fleets in the game anyway, and in everything that matters will act as one large entity anyway as well.

I support this message.

No Cap '08

Vote NO! for No Cap!

:D

[RyanRosco]

Lol at Recoils sig. Thats hilarious.

As for Jayrelo. I think that would be a awsome feature. But people will just make sub- fleets anyways. Im not agaist it, I just know why they do it. I was a game tester for 2 years. It does give you a little extra challange for making a multi- leveled fleet. But they will have a cap whether we like it or not. Just for the simple fact that once the game goes online. And people are getting owned by the super clan. 10 million people will flood tech support and game forums that is not fair. That whole fleet has a cheat that no one knows about. Its too big and small fleets dont stand a chance Ect. Ect Ect. I could go on for days on the BS they will come up with.
I dont care if they dont have a cap.. Because clans/fleets end up falling apart one day or another. Mabey not completely disband but at least lose alot of members and therefore losing power in the game. For all kinds of reasons. Leadership differences. Or one member who has a following and wants to be a chief instead of a indian. Leaves and takes half of the clan with him. Sometime people just want a change. Another thing I could go on for days about.

I would like a cap just because it does help to maintain a large group of players. You get enough players, start a sub- fleet . Assign your command structure there and let someone else worry about all the small stuff with those people. Also the expansion fleet players get more attention with a the sub-command group. Keeping up with the personalities and abiilities of 50 or so people is alot easier to do than with 500. You can Ask your sub command group what they know or think about a certain player. So it always makes for a smoother running clan/fleet

There are always MMO/clan politics. And you have to have played MMO's long enough to learn the ins and outs of the poliitics. I know there are alot of people on these forums that know all to well what I am talking about.

[jayrelo]

Lol at Recoils sig. Thats hilarious.

As for Jayrelo. I think that would be a awsome feature. But people will just make sub- fleets anyways. Im not agaist it, I just know why they do it. I was a game tester for 2 years. It does give you a little extra challange for making a multi- leveled fleet. But they will have a cap whether we like it or not. Just for the simple fact that once the game goes online. And people are getting owned by the super clan. 10 million people will flood tech support and game forums that is not fair. That whole fleet has a cheat that no one knows about. Its too big and small fleets dont stand a chance Ect. Ect Ect. I could go on for days on the BS they will come up with.
I dont care if they dont have a cap.. Because clans/fleets end up falling apart one day or another. Mabey not completely disband but at least lose alot of members and therefore losing power in the game. For all kinds of reasons. Leadership differences. Or one member who has a following and wants to be a chief instead of a indian. Leaves and takes half of the clan with him. Sometime people just want a change. Another thing I could go on for days about.

I would like a cap just because it does help to maintain a large group of players. You get enough players, start a sub- fleet . Assign your command structure there and let someone else worry about all the small stuff with those people. Also the expansion fleet players get more attention with a the sub-command group. Keeping up with the personalities and abiilities of 50 or so people is alot easier to do than with 500. You can Ask your sub command group what they know or think about a certain player. So it always makes for a smoother running clan/fleet

There are always MMO/clan politics. And you have to have played MMO's long enough to learn the ins and outs of the poliitics. I know there are alot of people on these forums that know all to well what I am talking about.

indeed, i hear what your sayin. i figure with an ingame solution to make subfleets or expansion fleets, whatever you want to call them, cryptic could give trade discounts for those fleet actions, small bonuses that trickle down to the expansions, so forth...

but yeah, i have to defer to you on fleet/guild politika. i for one have only logged two years in swg at the start of release, and ran a laid back guild with a friend. there was no politika, just chill times (something i wish to make here with knights templar btw, sorry for the quick plug), but yeah, i enjoyed your response.

[RyanRosco]

I agree having a trade bonus or maybe even be allowed to transfer fleet resources would be a awsome feature. Because people will do it anyways.It will just take them a little longer. Maybe even be able to directly transfer resources to the expansion fleet, or other fleets that you have alliance's or pacts with. Oh and by the way laid back clans are the longest lasting ones. Good call on having one of those :) Some clans thrive on the drama.

[cavilier210]

well, caps on fleet size make sense if like in WoW theres a limit to how many players can be displayed at a time. kinda makes it hard to run things if you don't know who's there. they might just make a list unlimited in size though

[jayrelo]

I agree having a trade bonus or maybe even be allowed to transfer fleet resources would be a awsome feature. Because people will do it anyways.It will just take them a little longer. Maybe even be able to directly transfer resources to the expansion fleet, or other fleets that you have alliance's or pacts with. Oh and by the way laid back clans are the longest lasting ones. Good call on having one of those :) Some clans thrive on the drama.

haha, i know, i've been entertaining myself by reading the back and forth between the 2nd fleet and the 5th fleet. it beats the sports section of wapo during my morning coffee...

i mean no malice when i mention them, i respect that they are really into it, but i lead my RL with absolutely no drama, so everything around me must be drama free. even aspects of this game. just one of those things.

however, i will admit, drama can be a tractor beam when viewed upon afar.

[Lateo]

well, caps on fleet size make sense if like in WoW theres a limit to how many players can be displayed at a time. kinda makes it hard to run things if you don't know who's there. they might just make a list unlimited in size though

Concur, i suspect the only "fleet" limit will be down to hardware requirements.

Though its kind of a misnomer, "fleet" is starfleet, all of it, every department, every battlegroup is part of the "fleet".

I wonder if the Federation/Klingon "terms" will be used within the game for "group" sizes, that would be cool.

[cavilier210]

well, ur navy is a "fleet" but with various fleets with special coverage areas. like the "pacific fleet" and the "1st fleet". WW2 had a lot of subdivisions of our total "fleet"

[RyanRosco]

There will be Fleets. Which is basically a Clan. STO is a MMO that will support this feature. There will be a Cap limit of some sorts. If you look at the previous posts. Any one that has played mmo's with a in-game Clan/ Fleet feature will vouch that they will more that likely follow every other MMO and put a cap on. The original question was does anyone know what this cap will be? And also what do you think that cap should be?
I think cryptic should release something on this subject for the simple fact. It is not plot sensitive, and two im sure this feature of the game has already been decided. Or at least a rough estimate has been discussed. I know this game is still in the early stages. But considering all we have right now is a video and a chance to form fleets. This one simple number could help us organize our fleets. and give us something to do

[Thibor]

Ya a 1000 is good but i doubt any fleet will get that big =)

Depends on how many alts per account we're allowed. The guild I'm in hit the 500 cap in WoW a couple years ago and have been negotiating around it since.
No, WoW doesn't cap adding people, just the the tools that display the names, etc caps at displaying 500.
Pain in the butt.

[Lateo]

well, ur navy is a "fleet" but with various fleets with special coverage areas. like the "pacific fleet" and the "1st fleet". WW2 had a lot of subdivisions of our total "fleet"

Riight got it :)

(http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_Fleets)

[ajaco3025]

There will be Fleets. Which is basically a Clan. STO is a MMO that will support this feature. There will be a Cap limit of some sorts. If you look at the previous posts. Any one that has played mmo's with a in-game Clan/ Fleet feature will vouch that they will more that likely follow every other MMO and put a cap on. The original question was does anyone know what this cap will be? And also what do you think that cap should be?
I think cryptic should release something on this subject for the simple fact. It is not plot sensitive, and two im sure this feature of the game has already been decided. Or at least a rough estimate has been discussed. I know this game is still in the early stages. But considering all we have right now is a video and a chance to form fleets. This one simple number could help us organize our fleets. and give us something to do

Well, it doesn't do good to assume. Eve Online doesn't have a cap. I can't remember if WoW has one but I remember my community I was with had hundreds of people in one Guild. I'm sure there are others out there that don't have caps.

With you saying, "Any one that has played mmo's with a in-game Clan/ Fleet feature will vouch that they will more that likely follow every other MMO and put a cap on", makes me think of that old cliche. "Just because someone jumps off of a bridge, does that mean you have to?"

[Hagon]

Are there really that many games that actually do cap guild/clan sizes? Maybe some links are prudent to give us examples of cap numbers, and some evidence that "most games" do it?

[RyanRosco]

Like you said, most games have a cap on fleet/clan/faction members, so i would expect one in STO.

as for numbers, 100-150 is normally good. Depends on if you like to have Alts.

Some people like Typheron have played enough MMO's to know about this. But I guess some do not

Eve does not have a "in-game" Fleet/Clan service. Thats what this whole thread is about, read the first post. In-Game clans. Wow is Basically 500. You can have more but the game only shows the 500. Hence a Cap of some sorts. Again read the posts from some WOW players in this tread. But to entertain you. I'll give u a couple links to some free MMO's that use a in-game Guild/Clan option. So you can see what they are. You will have to join but to no cost to you.

http://us1.darkorbit.com/index.es?sid=7377f4cea258f340aadcec3696eb8c90

http://us.bigpoint.com/games/gladiatoren2/
Actually all Bigpoint games use a in-game clan system. About 20+ games with a 50 member guild/clan cap limit


And here is a link to all the MMO's online right now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MMORPGs

Some have in-game clanning systems, some have independent Clans. Some of the games make avaiilable Art work and Forums support but thats it. Go ahead and knock yourself out.

Im not going to post every single link to everyone of them that I have played. Or look into all 200 of those. Because that is a huge waste of time for me. . In case you didnt read any of the previous posts on this tread we are talking about a "in-game" fleet/clan/ guild system. Which STO is going to seemingly going to implement.

That means in case you dont know, that the Devoloper of the game incorporates a system into the game where players can join up and play as a team. And also pool resources. . What I am NOT talking about is MMO's that support groups that starts independent websites , And put certain characters in their names to idenify that they are part of a clan. Ex: XxRoscoxX

Hope that helps.

[Neogunmetal]

Having a limit is the only way to ensure everyone can enjoy the game is som fashion. Small time players that want to have their own fleet can without being over run by the uber large ones. If you want more members then set up something like they have in CoH...Coalitions. This serves two ends..one you can have a super big Fleet by stacking 10 fleets into one massive collective or many small fleets can get together and help one another.

[Hagon]

Some people like Typheron have played enough MMO's to know about this. But I guess some do not

Eve does not have a "in-game" Fleet/Clan service. Thats what this whole thread is about, read the first post. In-Game clans. Wow is Basically 500. You can have more but the game only shows the 500. Hence a Cap of some sorts. Again read the posts from some WOW players in this tread. But to entertain you. I'll give u a couple links to some free MMO's that use a in-game Guild/Clan option. So you can see what they are. You will have to join but to no cost to you.

http://us1.darkorbit.com/index.es?sid=7377f4cea258f340aadcec3696eb8c90

http://us.bigpoint.com/games/gladiatoren2/
Actually all Bigpoint games use a in-game clan system. About 20+ games with a 50 member guild/clan cap limit


And here is a link to all the MMO's online right now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MMORPGs

Some have in-game clanning systems, some have independent Clans. Some of the games make avaiilable Art work and Forums support but thats it. Go ahead and knock yourself out.

Im not going to post every single link to everyone of them that I have played. Or look into all 200 of those. Because that is a huge waste of time for me. . In case you didnt read any of the previous posts on this tread we are talking about a "in-game" fleet/clan/ guild system. Which STO is going to seemingly going to implement.

That means in case you dont know, that the Devoloper of the game incorporates a system into the game where players can join up and play as a team. And also pool resources. . What I am NOT talking about is MMO's that support groups that starts independent websites , And put certain characters in their names to idenify that they are part of a clan. Ex: XxRoscoxX

Hope that helps.As my ol' pappy used to say "Son, you best check yerself".

I've played a good chunk of them there MMOs on that list, including some of the F2P ones.

My question wasn't one based on ingnorance. It was one based on incredulity, because I don't think that there are actually that many MMOs that put a hard cap on guild/clan size. As many have said it's really a waste of time to have due to being so easy to get around, and companies generally like to encourage guilds to flourish. It's good for long term viability, since players in large well organized guilds tend to play their games longer.

Having a limit is the only way to ensure everyone can enjoy the game is som fashion. Small time players that want to have their own fleet can without being over run by the uber large ones. If you want more members then set up something like they have in CoH...Coalitions. This serves two ends..one you can have a super big Fleet by stacking 10 fleets into one massive collective or many small fleets can get together and help one another.So in effect, there's huge guilds anyway. See how pointless it is?

[stevedogg83]

hey ryanrosco how you doin, i just wanted to introduce myself, im stephen and i too just joined wolf pack fleet, just wanted to say hi mate

[Trekkie]

Ideally I think it would be nice to have no limit to the number of members in a fleet but I can see some obvious problems stemming from such a concept; to be honest, I think that it would be good if there was a limit but it was pretty high, like 250 or something like that.

[Thibor]

Ideally I think it would be nice to have no limit to the number of members in a fleet but I can see some obvious problems stemming from such a concept; to be honest, I think that it would be good if there was a limit but it was pretty high, like 250 or something like that.

250 is too low if they allow you more than 2 chars per acct on same server. Guilds exist currently that persist beyond any one game and they can be large, 100+, 200+ active members etc. Even WoW with its soft cap of 500 (you can add more people, you just don't see them in the ui of the guild tools) is an issue for some guilds. Of course there you can have 10 chars on one server per acct. So in theory, 50 accts could swell the ranks of a guild to 500 characters.

Honestly, there should be no limits. If you're not a big guild and fear being steamrolled in PvP my the larger opposing faction guilds, then form alliances with other guilds. But, let those who've set their standards, done their recruiting, and amassed a decent number of fun people to play with have room for their characters and alts within one fleet structure in the game.

[jayrelo]

250 is too low if they allow you more than 2 chars per acct on same server. Guilds exist currently that persist beyond any one game and they can be large, 100+, 200+ active members etc. Even WoW with its soft cap of 500 (you can add more people, you just don't see them in the ui of the guild tools) is an issue for some guilds. Of course there you can have 10 chars on one server per acct. So in theory, 50 accts could swell the ranks of a guild to 500 characters.

Honestly, there should be no limits. If you're not a big guild and fear being steamrolled in PvP my the larger opposing faction guilds, then form alliances with other guilds. But, let those who've set their standards, done their recruiting, and amassed a decent number of fun people to play with have room for their characters and alts within one fleet structure in the game.

see, thats a great point. isn't that part of trek? if you see some big bad pvp guild out there, make alliances. use diplomacy, roleplay in the game to make something work to help everyone. sure, its not going to be a written rule inside the game universe, but if this game can make us think and live trek outside the box, outside the game, well then, i think we would be getting more than we pay for each month.

[Angelphoenix12]

i think there will be a limit on fleets, like in city of. when cryptic was incharge, the super groups wuld only have 75 member limit.
i truily belive that they will put some kind of limit on them, how much idk.

[RyanRosco]

As my ol' pappy used to say "Son, you best check yerself".

I've played a good chunk of them there MMOs on that list, including some of the F2P ones.

My question wasn't one based on ingnorance. It was one based on incredulity, because I don't think that there are actually that many MMOs that put a hard cap on guild/clan size. As many have said it's really a waste of time to have due to being so easy to get around, and companies generally like to encourage guilds to flourish. It's good for long term viability, since players in large well organized guilds tend to play their games longer.

I too have played a good chunk of those games. And If you look I was the first person to say that it is easy to get around, but a cap slows down that process. By no means was I trying to insult or call anyone ingnorant. Sorry if I gave you that impression. Tho I disagree with your most of your statement. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. I personally don't get into arguments with individuals on forums. And I think I explained myself clearly and accurately on my post in question. More than a few of the other posters have anwsered your question as well. If you simply do not want a player cap thats fine. We all will respect you opinion.

hey ryanrosco how you doin, i just wanted to introduce myself, im stephen and i too just joined wolf pack fleet, just wanted to say hi mate

Hello and welcome, glad to have you. I look foward to working with you:)

see, thats a great point. isn't that part of trek? if you see some big bad pvp guild out there, make alliances. use diplomacy, roleplay in the game to make something work to help everyone. sure, its not going to be a written rule inside the game universe, but if this game can make us think and live trek outside the box, outside the game, well then, i think we would be getting more than we pay for each month.

I could not have said that better myself Jay

[Hagon]

I too have played a good chunk of those games. And If you look I was the first person to say that it is easy to get around, but a cap slows down that process. By no means was I trying to insult or call anyone ingnorant. Sorry if I gave you that impression. Tho I disagree with your most of your statement. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. I personally don't get into arguments with individuals on forums. And I think I explained myself clearly and accurately on my post in question. More than a few of the other posters have anwsered your question as well. If you simply do not want a player cap thats fine. We all will respect you opinion.
I'm not sure where you're going with this, but please understand why I asked what I asked. That I disagree with you is something else.

It's just that one of the core arguments that you put forward for a guild cap was, and I quote,

I know that 90% of games that have a in-game clan design have a cap because they pool resources.
.. presumably to infer that this was something that was standard in the genre.

I asked for some substantiation of this because my understanding is that it's not standard at all. In fact, my understanding is that in reality few games actually hard cap guild/clan/corp/etc sizes. The respondents that have played WoW, which I am one of as well (among many other MMOGs), have in fact pointed out that WoW doesn't hard cap guild sizes. The only "cap" in place is due to the limitations of it's guild interface in displaying member's names. You can still invite players into a guild after reaching that interface's limit.

You then responded by strongly intimating that since I didn't see all these games that hard capped guild/clan/corp etc etc numbers I must not be familiar with MMOGs. In fact you were rather condescending about it. I simply pointed out to you that you were quite wrong in your assumptions about me, and that I also thought you were misinformed in your assertions of how many games did this.

That all being said, I'm not totally against the concept. I just think that there needs to be a very good reason for it based on the structure of the game in question. Not just because other games do it, or because some are scared of larger guilds/clans having an inherent advantage.

If it is a matter of one being against these large entities having an inherent advantage, then really the argument should be that these entities shouldn't be allowed at all ,regardless of their size. After all, there's inherent advantages to being in a guild over being solo in the first place. The thing is though, like capping the sizes of them, not allowing them at all would be a futile thing to do because players would form these associations outside of the game anyway. Just like they did before they were supported via guild mechanics being put in these games.

So then it just comes down to not wanting some to have advantages that others may not have. I would then submit that that's just unavoidable. There will always be those that have an advantage over others in these games. We might as well campaign to only allow players with the same latency to play, or the same keyboard and mouse, make everyone take a hand/eye coordination test and only allow those that fall within a certain range to play, make everyone take problem solving exams and only allow those that get within a certain range play, etc.

[RyanRosco]

Im sorry but I did not read your whole post it was too long. And im wasted. No offense.
I gave you some links and told you to look thru the list. So do it. And prove me wrong. Since it obviousy means so much to you. I provide facts. Thats it.
Dont read so much into peoples words. You are trying to argue ONE sentence that I said. Ok maybe its not 90% but 80%sorry. You look into it and let me know.
You are looking for a arguement. And I know you want one, but I wont give you one there champ
Everyone that knows what they are talking about. Agrees with me. Sorry:mad:
Get over it and stop acting like a 6 year old

[jayrelo]

Im sorry but I did not read your post it was too long. And im wasted. No offense.
I gave you some links and told you to look thru the list. So do it. And prove me wrong. K
Dont read so much into peoples words. You are trying to argue ONE sentence that I said.
You are looking for a arguement. And I know you want one, but I wont give you one there champ
Everyone that knows what they are talking about. Agrees with me. Sorry:mad:
Get over it and stop acting like a 6 year old

thats why i heart the rosco.

but i heart the hagon too. :(


you guys are tearing me apart....

[RyanRosco]

LOL jay. These are the people I was talking about,


And also back to the subject.
What do you think the player Cap limit will be. I think that 250 members is a good number. Tell me what you think

[ChoppyNZ]

I do not feel that a cap could do any good. Whatever bad may come because of overly huge fleets, can easily be delt with by an alliance of smaller fleets to maintain order and where that fails over a long period - the dev's could step in and send a borg invasion thier way or similar :p

[MrGoodcat]

They will put a cap on it. No doubt about that. I like the Idea of a caped fleet system with the ability to interface with other fleets. Maybe an ally system? That would be cool. But here is something to consider. Each fleet will be able too have there own base of operations of some sort. A space station I think is what they said. But will those be instanced or real time? Either way, if a fleet grows to be massive, that would lead too a TON of lag at there space station. The station would have to Be huge!

[RyanRosco]

Good kat is completely right. They WILL put a cap on fleets. I have explained why already. Read the post concerning this.

[jayrelo]

LOL jay. These are the people I was talking about,


And also back to the subject.
What do you think the player Cap limit will be. I think that 250 members is a good number. Tell me what you think

sounds like a fair number. though i'm sure it will depend on also the final decisions made on one universe all the way to playable accounts on server.

honestly, when it comes right down to it, i could care less. i am recruiting for a fleet right now, i really don't want it to swell to the population of alaska. ya know? :)

[Thibor]

What do you think the player Cap limit will be. I think that 250 members is a good number. Tell me what you think


250 accounts?

or

250 avatars?

There's a huge difference pending on how many avatars we're allowed per server/per acount

[Hagon]

Im sorry but I did not read your whole post it was too long. And im wasted. No offense.
I gave you some links and told you to look thru the list. So do it. And prove me wrong. Since it obviousy means so much to you. I provide facts. Thats it.
Dont read so much into peoples words. You are trying to argue ONE sentence that I said. Ok maybe its not 90% but 80%sorry. You look into it and let me know.
You are looking for a arguement. And I know you want one, but I wont give you one there champ
Everyone that knows what they are talking about. Agrees with me. Sorry:mad:
Get over it and stop acting like a 6 year oldI'm not looking for an argument at all.

Obviously you're still trying to maintain that by a large majority most games cap guild size, and are using that as one of the main premises of you assertions that STO should as well. I'm trying to illustrate to you that you are in fact not anywhere near accurate in maintaining that most games do it, and in fact by far most games do not cap guild sizes, and most of those that do provide a mechanism for guilds to link up, which in effect allows for large guilds anyway. I'm sorry if someone pointing out that some of your facts are wrong is upsetting or annoying to you,but someone doing so is to be expected if one doesn't verify their facts before stating them as a given.

[RyanRosco]

I too have played a good chunk of those games. And If you look I was the first person to say that it is easy to get around, but a cap slows down that process. By no means was I trying to insult or call anyone ingnorant. Sorry if I gave you that impression. Tho I disagree with your most of your statement. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. I personally don't get into arguments with individuals on forums. And I think I explained myself clearly and accurately on my post in question. More than a few of the other posters have anwsered your question as well.

Ill just quote my self again. Because my anwser wont change. I gave you facts, and links to merit them. On a previous post. So If you are just looking for a "You are right" response from me or the others. You will be doin alot of wastefull typing.


And back on topic AGAIN lol.
no not 250 accounts lol. Just at least a 250 player fleet cap if not more. But that does bring up another issue. how many accounts will we be allowed? I would think as many as we want.
I for one dont state a crapload of players. I focus one one then possibbly a second or third Also will there be a player level limit? I hate player level limits. But I bet we have them Wow is what 60 something. And Age of Conan is 65. Eve is licensed based for abilities. Obviously we can only get to a certain navel rank. So will we have a numerical level system. Or just a navel ranking system? Or both? If anyone knows this. Please post something about it.
Mabey I should start some new threads. about these 2 issues?

[jayrelo]

Ill just quote my self again. Because my anwser wont change. I gave you facts, and links to merit them. On a previous post. So If you are just looking for a "You are right" response from me or the others. You will be doin alot of wastefull typing.


And back on topic AGAIN lol.
no not 250 accounts lol. Just at least a 250 player fleet cap if not more. But that does bring up another issue. how many accounts will we be allowed? I would think as many as we want.
I for one dont state a crapload of players. I focus one one then possibbly a second or third Also will there be a player level limit? I hate player level limits. But I bet we have them Wow is what 60 something. And Age of Conan is 65. Eve is licensed based for abilities. Obviously we can only get to a certain navel rank. So will we have a numerical level system. Or just a navel ranking system? Or both? If anyone knows this. Please post something about it.
Mabey I should start some new threads. about these 2 issues?

actually, when you bring up level, i think they might do things differently. it sounds like they want to make it rank based or skill based, not level based. i'm not sure if i read it somewhere, but it would be worth discussing.

[Hagon]

I gave you facts, and links to merit them.
You gave me a link to one game, and another link to another game by the same company that has a portal to the parent company, which is a company that provides free to play, browser based games. Hardly representative of much at all. You then provided a link that listed all MMOGs, but if you yourself would have taken the time to see if what you believe is a fact actually is, you would have found that most of them don't, Especially not "A" list MMOGs that rely on subscription fees, which free to play MMOGs aren't.

Free to play MMOGs are most often very cheaply made games that don't cost the player anything until you go to the item shop (if the game has one), thus why they're a favourite of the kiddies. They usually have limited content and features. That goes even more so for browser based f2p ones.

STO isn't going to be a browser based F2P MMOG.

Now STO may very well cap fleet sizes. I don't have a crystal ball after all. But if they do, it won't be because most other games do, since most other games don't. It also won't be because a couple of posters in this thread agree with you that they should or will. The only plausible reason why they would that's been brought up so far is the point about space stations. But presumably these will be handled like the super group bases were handled in Cryptic's previous games, and they'll be instanced. An instanced space can hold a very large number of players, especially if there's no NPCs or players using abilities with particle effect graphics.

[RyanRosco]

disregard this post

[RyanRosco]

Lol at Recoils sig. Thats hilarious.

the simple fact that once the game goes online. And people are getting owned by the super clan. 10 million people will flood tech support and game forums that is not fair. That whole fleet has a cheat that no one knows about. Its too big and small fleets dont stand a chance Ect. Ect Ect. I could go on for days on the BS they will come up with..

In Regard to Hagan

I explained WHY MMO's have a cap. Not that STO will only have a cap because "everyone" else does.

I can say that the moon is blue and you can say that it is red. Then we can go back and forth and back and forth about this. Its almost like discussing religion. And its a waste of my time

But what I will do is give you another example. Since the other links did not meet you high standard of approval I will give you a fairly new "A" list MMO that again has a Clan cap ATTENTION EVERYONE.

http://www.ageofconangold.ws/age-of-conan-gold/2008/07/age-of-conan-classes-guide.html
I am right!!! No big surprise there.

Also It is of no importance that I gave you a semi-free MMO site to go to. It has no relevance to anything. What.. Just because those were Java based. That means nothing, Nothing at all. Not even a little bit.
I did that so you could check out a example of capped MMO's without paying anything. And all those 20 + games are capped. So i gave you 21 examples you gave me none.

The MMO's that you keep bringing up, WOW and EVE. Wow has a soft cap. And EVE does not have a in-game clanning system.
And other "A" list MMO's do not have in-game clans. Yes there are a few MMO's out there with in-game clans with no limit. But most do. I am not going to spend 2 hours going to every MMO on the internet and give you links to everyone that has a capped clan limit.
Im not 6 years old. You expect me to do this.. why dont you do it. lol.

I have been playing MMO's since th BB's days. And have probably played more of them to you. But im not here to get into a dick-swinging contest.

Also who CARES. That is not what this tread is about. How many games are capped have no merit to this conversation. You are one of those people who argue with everyone about everything. Yes I looked up some of your post's. And thats what brought me to this conclusion. I had a idea you were one of those. Well Im not going to be one of those people that do that with you. Everyone that is reading this go look at some of his posts. You hate being wrong. Its not even about the cap anymore. You just want to convince someone that your right. Thats what this is about.

So with that said go ahead and post untill your fingers bleed. I WILL NOT read your posts. Or respond to them. I AM correct about most games with a ingame clan fuction are capped. And the funny thing is that it really does bother you. LOL, I frankly don't care.

[Hagon]

disregard this postWell I'm sorry if I forced you to go out and find out the truth and that's gotten you so angry you feel the need to lash out. Clearly you haven't played any MMOs besides f2p ones. It's pretty obvious by the many misconceptions you hold (like the fact that you don't know that EVERY 'A' list MMOG out there has a form of guild/clan/corporation/other various names). There's nothing wrong with that of course, but I'm afraid you'll find some things quite a bit different in subscription based MMOs.

I'd also say it's interesting that you post a link to a gold selling site. You also may not be aware that gold selling is considered a violation of the EULA for most reputable subscription based games, and posting links to such sites is against the forum rules I believe.

[RyanRosco]

In Regard to Hagan

I explained WHY MMO's have a cap. Not that STO will only have a cap because "everyone" else does.

I can say that the moon is blue and you can say that it is red. Then we can go back and forth and back and forth about this. Its almost like discussing religion. And its a waste of my time

But what I will do is give you another example. Since the other links did not meet you high standard of approval I will give you a fairly new "A" list MMO that again has a Clan cap ATTENTION EVERYONE.

http://www.ageofconangold.ws/age-of-conan-gold/2008/07/age-of-conan-classes-guide.html
I am right!!! No big surprise there.

Also It is of no importance that I gave you a semi-free MMO site to go to. It has no relevance to anything. What.. Just because those were Java based. That means nothing, Nothing at all. Not even a little bit.
I did that so you could check out a example of capped MMO's without paying anything. And all those 20 + games are capped. So i gave you 21 examples you gave me none.

The MMO's that you keep bringing up, WOW and EVE. Wow has a soft cap. And EVE does not have a in-game clanning system.
And other "A" list MMO's do not have in-game clans. Yes there are a few MMO's out there with in-game clans with no limit. But most do. I am not going to spend 2 hours going to every MMO on the internet and give you links to everyone that has a capped clan limit.
Im not 6 years old. You expect me to do this.. why dont you do it. lol.

I have been playing MMO's since th BB's days. And have probably played more of them to you. But im not here to get into a dick-swinging contest.

Also who CARES. That is not what this tread is about. How many games are capped have no merit to this conversation. You are one of those people who argue with everyone about everything. Yes I looked up some of your post's. And thats what brought me to this conclusion. I had a idea you were one of those. Well Im not going to be one of those people that do that with you. Everyone that is reading this go look at some of his posts. You hate being wrong. Its not even about the cap anymore. You just want to convince someone that your right. Thats what this is about.

So with that said go ahead and post untill your fingers bleed. I WILL NOT read your posts. Or respond to them. I AM correct about most games with a ingame clan fuction are capped. And the funny thing is that it really does bother you. LOL, I frankly don't care.


I say again LOL. Now you want to argue about EULA hahaha. Now I havent even played subscribed MMO's LOL. And my one misconception is now turned to many hahahahahah Shall we argue about all those next, Yeah I just love java games soooo much. Thank you for opening my eyes oh great one. If I could just be the master of all like you. I could ignore facts and create my own reality like you. Teach me old wise one.
Oh and by the way can you tell me of another MMO. I would love to play one. Im just stuck on the noob games man. Thats how I roll.
Oh and let me break a supposed rule again
http://www.ageofconangold.ws/age-of-conan-gold/2008/07/age-of-conan-classes-guide.html

oh man I am done for!!!! I better watch my step lol

[Hagon]

I thought you weren't reading my posts or responding to them.


Interesting........

So how much of the other things you post aren't true?

[Arachnidus]

Fleets should definitely not have player limits. It's not right. A fleet should be allowed to get as big as they can. It's not fair to the Fleet's players. Second Fleet has over 100 people. Most people are saying that should be the limit, it's simply not fair to other people who want to join. I don't see how anybody can support it.


And to the people pointing out that all other MMO's have Guild player caps; WoW doesn't, as far as I know. I've seen guilds with over 1000 people in them(I remember there was a 500 player cap, but I don't know if it's still in effect, I play on a private server now).

[RyanRosco]

Fleets should definitely not have player limits. It's not right. A fleet should be allowed to get as big as they can. It's not fair to the Fleet's players. Second Fleet has over 100 people. Most people are saying that should be the limit, it's simply not fair to other people who want to join. I don't see how anybody can support it.


And to the people pointing out that all other MMO's have Guild player caps; WoW doesn't, as far as I know. I've seen guilds with over 1000 people in them(I remember there was a 500 player cap, but I don't know if it's still in effect, I play on a private server now).

Im sure a cap would be over 100 people easy. I am hoping for 250-500. No its not fair but the small fleets will say it is.Tho I do perfer a cap. I wont care if there isnt one either. There are ways around it. I wrote previouly how to do it. Tho most know how too. Its not hard. I dont know what the cap is on WOW now. I havent played it in a year. I remember the 500. But I "think" its unlimited now tho someone posted that you can only see 500 or interact with 500 of them. So they still kinda have it. You will have to read his post. I think it is on page 2 of this tread.

[RyanRosco]

In Regard to Hagan

I explained WHY MMO's have a cap. Not that STO will only have a cap because "everyone" else does.

I can say that the moon is blue and you can say that it is red. Then we can go back and forth and back and forth about this. Its almost like discussing religion. And its a waste of my time

But what I will do is give you another example. Since the other links did not meet you high standard of approval I will give you a fairly new "A" list MMO that again has a Clan cap ATTENTION EVERYONE.

http://www.ageofconangold.ws/age-of-conan-gold/2008/07/age-of-conan-classes-guide.html
I am right!!! No big surprise there.

Also It is of no importance that I gave you a semi-free MMO site to go to. It has no relevance to anything. What.. Just because those were Java based. That means nothing, Nothing at all. Not even a little bit.
I did that so you could check out a example of capped MMO's without paying anything. And all those 20 + games are capped. So i gave you 21 examples you gave me none.

The MMO's that you keep bringing up, WOW and EVE. Wow has a soft cap. And EVE does not have a in-game clanning system.
And other "A" list MMO's do not have in-game clans. Yes there are a few MMO's out there with in-game clans with no limit. But most do. I am not going to spend 2 hours going to every MMO on the internet and give you links to everyone that has a capped clan limit.
Im not 6 years old. You expect me to do this.. why dont you do it. lol.

I have been playing MMO's since th BB's days. And have probably played more of them to you. But im not here to get into a dick-swinging contest.

Also who CARES. That is not what this tread is about. How many games are capped have no merit to this conversation. You are one of those people who argue with everyone about everything. Yes I looked up some of your post's. And thats what brought me to this conclusion. I had a idea you were one of those. Well Im not going to be one of those people that do that with you. Everyone that is reading this go look at some of his posts. You hate being wrong. Its not even about the cap anymore. You just want to convince someone that your right. Thats what this is about.

So with that said go ahead and post untill your fingers bleed. I WILL NOT read your posts. Or respond to them. I AM correct about most games with a ingame clan fuction are capped. And the funny thing is that it really does bother you. LOL, I frankly don't care.


interesting......... I did say that. Something you finally got right.
I did say I would not respond to your posts.
You know what that means. I am a all out bold faced . Liar. My bad

[Hagon]

I am a all out bold faced . Liar. My badOh my that's harsh. I wouldn't go that far. You're just someone that posts things as fact that aren't facts at all. No need to be that hard on yourself.

[jayrelo]

interesting......... I did say that. Something you finally got right.
I did say I would not respond to your posts.
You know what that means. I am a all out bold faced . Liar. My bad

rosco, are you responding to yourself now?

things have gone bad...

double a is a safe place friend.

:p

[jayrelo]

Oh my that's harsh. I wouldn't go that far. You're just someone that posts things as fact that aren't facts at all. No need to be that hard on yourself.

i think he put you on ignore.

:(

i was enjoying the back and forth. i shall miss it.

[RyanRosco]

i think he put you on ignore.

:(

i was enjoying the back and forth. i shall miss it.

LOL jay, I was enjoying it as well. But alas I can no longer see his posts. And no Im not responding to myself hahaha. I just kept quoting my last time consuming post. The one that proves him wrong.
But i can see when you quote him:):)
And yes hagen I am taking it very hard. Hopefuly one day I will get over it lol.
I can't even sleep anymore, its a crazy thing. Maybe one day.....

[jayrelo]

I can't even sleep anymore, its a crazy thing. Maybe one day.....

um, just stop drinking those redbull vodkas son!

:p

[RyanRosco]

um, just stop drinking those redbull vodkas son!

:p

ROFL I will see what I can do

[Hagon]

Well someone putting another on ignore for pointing out they posted falsehoods in support of their position pretty much denotes the maturity level of that person in my opinion.

[RyanRosco]

Back to the Topic at hand now.
Fleet cap Limits
Do you think that they should have them or not?
also if they implement it, what do you feel a proper and fair limit should be?

[RyanRosco]

Friendly Bump:)

[usmchayward]

No. In the battle of Wolf 359 they had every ship available to fight the borg. The mission should scale to the size of the fleet responding to the mission. That would allow solo players to have as much fun as a guild hunt. It wouldnt be limited to the first 8 from a guild of 200.

[cv_coco]

No. In the battle of Wolf 359 they had every ship available to fight the borg. The mission should scale to the size of the fleet responding to the mission. That would allow solo players to have as much fun as a guild hunt. It wouldnt be limited to the first 8 from a guild of 200.

The battle of Wolf should be a faction wide event and imo shouldn't impact any caps to the fleets.
What if you put a cap of say 200-250 on active players per fleet and multiply that by amount of possible alts for theoretical cap? Or are there fleets that have more than 250 active players?
In any case I'd prefer our fleet to be smaller and more manageable, but to each his own so cap is not a must per se.

[Freejack]

Earth to Thread:

Let's get real here for a moment. Ryan, I see you are from Ohio. Ohio is one of 50 states in the USA. Should we start limiting the number of people that move to New York because it is getting too crowded, too big, too rich, or too powerful? That would be absurd. Why should that be imposed in a game of galactic proportions?

If you ask me, limits on clan/guild/fleet size were arbitrarily written into the games database to limit file sizes. The only ill-effect I have seen in games from XXXL guilds is arrogance (from a minority of people in the group) and jealosy (from a minority of people not in the group), both of which are emotional responses and neither of which effect gameplay.

Some people want to sit at the "cool" table in the cafeteria at lunchtime, and others prefer not to be associated with them. Do you follow the crowd or do you make your own path? There is no need for size limits. The devs will set a limit they deem fit for their server if any limit is needed.

I, myself, prefer to be in a small circle of friends with common goals and common ideals rather than being an unknown number in megalomaniacal fleet.

[RyanRosco]

Earth to Thread:

Let's get real here for a moment. Ryan, I see you are from Ohio. Ohio is one of 50 states in the USA. Should we start limiting the number of people that move to New York because it is getting too crowded, too big, too rich, or too powerful? That would be absurd. Why should that be imposed in a game of galactic proportions?

If you ask me, limits on clan/guild/fleet size were arbitrarily written into the games database to limit file sizes. The only ill-effect I have seen in games from XXXL guilds is arrogance (from a minority of people in the group) and jealosy (from a minority of people not in the group), both of which are emotional responses and neither of which effect gameplay.

Some people want to sit at the "cool" table in the cafeteria at lunchtime, and others prefer not to be associated with them. Do you follow the crowd or do you make your own path? There is no need for size limits. The devs will set a limit they deem fit for their server if any limit is needed.

I, myself, prefer to be in a small circle of friends with common goals and common ideals rather than being an unknown number in megalomaniacal fleet.

ATT: Earth to Freejack


Lets get real here for a moment Freejack. First I did not come up with a Fleet/Clan/Guild cap limit. Many games implement this for a variety of reasons. But limits due to hardware limitations are not one of them. Generally people join clans for a couple reasons. One joining a clan places someone within a social network which provides access to resources, knowledge, and help needed to accomplish many game related goals. In addition, banding together with like-minded players seems to fulfill a human desire for social interaction. Taken together, these two factors can vastly enhance the gameplay experience of many players. And obviously not everyone shares the same goal's in the game.

Some want to sit at the "cool" table, but what if everyone did sit there . Then it would take away this feature of the game.

Your smart theoretical idea's didn't really get us anywhere did it.

We are simply asking If they should impose a cap.?And if they do, what should it be? Two easy questions that don't need any sarcastic remarks. There are others that disagree with you. Look throughout the post. Just because you have a opposing opinion does not give you the right to have a condescending attitude and insult others.

[Toaster87]

I have a quick question. If you pick either Federation or Klingon at the start of the game then shouldnt that be your guild/clan/corp/fleet so to speak. Surely if you start deviding it into smaller fleets which in turn become clans/guild/corps then the different fleets in the federation might have different agendas or plans from each other and then the next thing u know federation is in a civil war because one person ****ed another person off in another fleet . . .does that make sence or am i loosing it again? :S
I unserstand that you will want to play with your friends but what about when u get given a mission to do (like u have been hailed to help a ship under attack) u can either pick to choose the ships that wll join you or you can broadcast it on all channels and the nearest ships get a message the same as you did.

I know this isnt exactly on topic but its kinda relivent i think

[Hagon]

ATT: Earth to Freejack


Many games implement this for a variety of reasons. But limits due to hardware limitations are not one of them.He didn't say anything about hardware. He said file sizes, and as has been pointed out to you numerous times, some games do have soft caps on guild size simply because of that reason alone. In fact thats why most of the very few games that do have these arbitrary limits have them.

Generally people join clans for a couple reasons. One joining a clan places someone within a social network which provides access to resources, knowledge, and help needed to accomplish many game related goals. In addition, banding together with like-minded players seems to fulfill a human desire for social interaction. Taken together, these two factors can vastly enhance the gameplay experience of many players. And obviously not everyone shares the same goal's in the game.Yes very obviously, but your point is?

Some want to sit at the "cool" table, but what if everyone did sit there . Then it would take away this feature of the game.Then that would be everyone's choice. Not everyone does though. Ever. So using it as an argument for is pointless.


We are simply asking If they should impose a cap.?And if they do, what should it be? Two easy questions that don't need any sarcastic remarks. There are others that disagree with you. Look throughout the post. Just because you have a opposing opinion does not give you the right to have a condescending attitude and insult others.The person didn't insult you. They just used a bit of inflection to try and drive the point home that putting a arbitrary cap on guild/fleet size is a pointless exercise that when rarely done, is done because of coding and data allocation reasons. They are easily worked around by the players wanting to form long term groups larger than the game provides for in it's limited design.

[RyanRosco]

I have a quick question. If you pick either Federation or Klingon at the start of the game then shouldnt that be your guild/clan/corp/fleet so to speak. Surely if you start deviding it into smaller fleets which in turn become clans/guild/corps then the different fleets in the federation might have different agendas or plans from each other and then the next thing u know federation is in a civil war because one person ****ed another person off in another fleet . . .does that make sence or am i loosing it again? :S
I unserstand that you will want to play with your friends but what about when u get given a mission to do (like u have been hailed to help a ship under attack) u can either pick to choose the ships that wll join you or you can broadcast it on all channels and the nearest ships get a message the same as you did.

I know this isnt exactly on topic but its kinda relivent i think

Yes it is on topic, lol. True you are divided from the get go. But Cryptic has stated that there will be fleets inside the companies. People are going to fight anyways even if they are on the same side. How devs can slow or stop this is by doing two things. One give a harsh penalty for shooting down a like-sided ship. Two they can stop you from even being able to fire on a like-sided ship. I like the hailing idea tho. I brought that up on a post in the past.

[RyanRosco]

No. In the battle of Wolf 359 they had every ship available to fight the borg. The mission should scale to the size of the fleet responding to the mission. That would allow solo players to have as much fun as a guild hunt. It wouldnt be limited to the first 8 from a guild of 200.

I dont think that having fleets would inhibit us to do that. Im not sure but I think that there will be whole Federation or Klingon battles with the Borg. I dont think you would just have to rely on your fleet for that but more of a collective joint effort with other fleets as well. Again im not sure but I would think you would have a pact or alliance agreement with other fleets. And also I dont think you can solo some missions. Alot of MMO's have missions that you can only do with other players

[RyanRosco]

The battle of Wolf should be a faction wide event and imo shouldn't impact any caps to the fleets.
What if you put a cap of say 200-250 on active players per fleet and multiply that by amount of possible alts for theoretical cap? Or are there fleets that have more than 250 active players?
In any case I'd prefer our fleet to be smaller and more manageable, but to each his own so cap is not a must per se.

I agree with your statement. I think that caps too would have to be determined by how many people are playing the game. But a fleet cap is not a must have by any means. I will play the game regardless.

[Toaster87]

Yes it is on topic, lol. True you are divided from the get go. But Cryptic has stated that there will be fleets inside the companies. People are going to fight anyways even if they are on the same side. How devs can slow or stop this is by doing two things. One give a harsh penalty for shooting down a like-sided ship. Two they can stop you from even being able to fire on a like-sided ship. I like the hailing idea tho. I brought that up on a post in the past.

or they could Become the Maquis and when ever they enter federation space they are flagged to starfleet as being in that region and a sort of enemy ship update could be sent to ships on request . . same could go for the klingons except it could be the duras family, for romulans it could be the Tal Shiar,for cardasians it could be the obsidian order etc etc. . . .just so everyone has the option of becoming a 'rebel' so to speak

What about if you can hail the ship asking them if its ok to fire upon them coz i know i would like to test my ship against a friends at one point. If they say no and you fire anyway then you will be classed as an enemy of the federation and hopefully blown up :D


I think if there is an incursion by the borg then every ship no matter what the fleet should be involved and other ships of ur race in the region during the battle should show as friendly, even if one of ur enemy fleet is there. Once the battle is over there is a timer to let the enemy fleets away from each other . . . .thats if there are such a thing as enemy fleets in the federation. I'd prefer my maquis idea to enemy fleets lol

[RyanRosco]

or they could Become the Maquis and when ever they enter federation space they are flagged to starfleet as being in that region and a sort of enemy ship update could be sent to ships on request . . same could go for the klingons except it could be the duras family, for romulans it could be the Tal Shiar,for cardasians it could be the obsidian order etc etc. . . .just so everyone has the option of becoming a 'rebel' so to speak

What about if you can hail the ship asking them if its ok to fire upon them coz i know i would like to test my ship against a friends at one point. If they say no and you fire anyway then you will be classed as an enemy of the federation and hopefully blown up :D


I think if there is an incursion by the borg then every ship no matter what the fleet should be involved and other ships of ur race in the region during the battle should show as friendly, even if one of ur enemy fleet is there. Once the battle is over there is a timer to let the enemy fleets away from each other . . . .thats if there are such a thing as enemy fleets in the federation. I'd prefer my maquis idea to enemy fleets lol


Good stuff I hope they get in-depth like that. And I for sure hope they use a hailing option in conjunction with the fleet options. Having Federation ships as hostile is a koo idea as well. If they do have a Cap what would you want it to be?:)

[Toaster87]

personally i think the maximum should be 150. This will give them a strong enough force to attack enemy fleets but not enough numbers to disrupt the actual balance of that race. You dont want a massive fleet that will say "we dont like our race anymore" but they make up a quater of the race themself. That will just ruin the game. Its best to keep the fleets quite small relitive to the race there in but still an effective force.

[OrabIbo]

At first when I read you OP I thought you was talking about "Fleet" as in party size. Which would make sense to have a limit on that. but after reading subsequent posts. I saw you were refering "Fleet" to Guild size. And that just doesn't make any sense.

I see what you are talking about with expansions but it's just silly and really hasn't been done in MMO's. They usually take the rought of limiting your Guild resources. Such as Bank storage size which you will buy expansions to let it grow bigger.
And what I always liked in EQ2 was guild quests. Where you guild could work together to earn achievements by doing quests that can be shared in the Guild for guild points that will be used to spend on Guild abilities.

[RyanRosco]

At first when I read you OP I thought you was talking about "Fleet" as in party size. Which would make sense to have a limit on that. but after reading subsequent posts. I saw you were refering "Fleet" to Guild size. And that just doesn't make any sense.

I see what you are talking about with expansions but it's just silly and really hasn't been done in MMO's. They usually take the rought of limiting your Guild resources. Such as Bank storage size which you will buy expansions to let it grow bigger.
And what I always liked in EQ2 was guild quests. Where you guild could work together to earn achievements by doing quests that can be shared in the Guild for guild points that will be used to spend on Guild abilities.

True there are ups and downs to everyside of it. Im not here to change minds and your opinion is appreciated:)