Exploration

[Angryfirebird]

I see the threads about combat and whatnot but what about the things the Federation normally does like exploration? Can we simply take a well supplied ship and travel and seek out new things across the galaxy? There is more to Star Trek than conflict. Does anyone agree?

[TheMasterpiece]

We all agree and so does cryptic. Exploration and diplomacy are included in STO

[cocoa-jin]

Well you do have to find it...before you blow it up!


Just kidding!

[Father_Origin]

Federation - Exploration
Klingon Empire - Recon in force
Ferengi - Market research

ya there will be a lot of that in the game :-P

[Trekkie]

I think that most people on these forums agree with the initial post, so it is good to see that the developers care about exploration and realize that it is a fundamental aspect of Star Trek.

[OrabIbo]

Cryptic is basically making a random space sector generator just for this. Which I applaud them for. This allows for each and every person to really do first contact without somebody else already being there or arriving shortly afterwards to ruin the experience.

Though I would like for them to go one step further and allow use to save the our most favorite random generated sectors and come back to those places with our friends. Kinda like trading files so you can explore the planet and the space sector it is in together.

Heck, hey could make the random generated space some what customizable by allowing us to deterimine how many moons an planet might have, include nebulas or black holes, suns... etc Wouldn't allow us to make to big of a sector. but a decent sized one would be nice :)

the reason why I say this is. I think random generated planets will disappear after you leave them. So you will never be able to revisit planets you have already been to. Or bring your friends to one unless they join your group and explore with you.

[Aerelleus]

thats not a bad idea saving planets for the added bonus play with a friend. i hope they include something like that. As for the exploration process it definatly gives the devs a chance for patches for new types of enemies being found and wars starting. so hey im all for it plus it gives ya something to do if you get bored with combat

[AaronH]

The reall question for me is: They said that at times it will be tough to tell the difference between generated systems and prebuilt systems, the question then is: Is the random generation just that good, or are their prebuilt stuff that bad :P

Seriously though, I am wondering what all exploration holds. Planetary Surverys? How detailed are planets? Can we study the ecosystem? Search for mineral deposits? Study anomolies? It sounds like they might also generate indigenous cultures, I wonder how that is going to work and how much we can interact with them?

[Decius]

Cryptic is basically making a random space sector generator just for this. Which I applaud them for. This allows for each and every person to really do first contact without somebody else already being there or arriving shortly afterwards to ruin the experience.

I agree, I can't wait to see how this handles. Hopefully it's very versatile with a lot of possibilities, so that no one mission will be repeated with all the same stuff.

[Lt.Renak]

hm are this random generated system instanced. What do you think?

[Father_Origin]

In exploration, I think that the fact that space is so BIG (how big is it?)
...that they can use that to thier advantage in producing some interesting results.

for example, for all practical purposes, the explorable part of player space can be
scaled larger than the normal space areas, then when the random space generator
clicks in, it will prob give you 4 basic outcomes.

1. nothing but a few common space rocks....it happens :-P
2. some type of temp encounter...storm, comet, pirates, temp wormhole ect....interesting
3. some type of minable resource
4. and rarely, life

ok, 1 and 2 can be handled then flushed with the next explore mission
3 can be marked and taged in that players data, like an private recreatable instant that
the player can revisit and use, also..the player should be able to share that instant with
other friendly players, until the resource is used up.
so 3 would almost be like an object in his/her/its inventory, to be used (visited) and shared
(copied) into other friendly players inventory.
3 would be accounted for only in a players data, not the server.

then we come to the rare 4
This one should be recorded on the server and can be found by anyone after the first player found it
...IF...they know exactly where it is. (unexplored space has few if any long range scanning posts)
so the only way to find it is know where the place is, or get really lucky and find it by
accident, or if the finding player developes the planetary relationship, his fleet can post
a base there.......this is important.

Because, this will prob be the area fleets can build thier bases of operations at..unexplored space.
This will also keep the main space play area free from massive player constructions.

my take on it

[OrabIbo]

hm are this random generated system instanced. What do you think?

Well it depends on how they design the game.

for the most part I would think a randomly generated sector of space would be instanced for the person/group that is in it.

As, if space is randomly generated, how would it have a place in the preexisting star map?
Would their be particular space sectors that would provoke a generated system? If this is the case it would have physical presence in the game world and other players could visit and come in on the same instance you are in.

I can see this being accomplished by having the system randomly generated for the first person that enters this sector of space for the first time that day between maintenance periods for the servers. The sector of space can be visited by any player that remains in this system. If this instanced area empties out of all players occupying the space. Then the zone will reset, and the next new player to the area will get a new space zone randomly generated for them. And the cycle repeats till the next server maintenace period where the serves get reset once a day. :)

And to avoid overcrowding they could create a new instance for every 5-10 ppl that enter the zone.

or they could make these areas at the edge of explored space. So beyond that would be unexplored space and their encounters would be unique for everyone/or group.


But the core thing about having other players visit the same randomly generated space is that it would have to have a physical presence in game so other ppl can come to it. otherwise it wouldn't exist for anybody else to visit and each instance would be unique to every player.

I personally would like to revisit some systems. And the game would take some of the saved variables from the random instance and randomly generate new missions for me to go on in the space sector I explored earlier. But this is just wishful thinking on my part. And would require some crafty programming dexterity on Cryptics part.

[BanzaiZAP]

I'm one to pipe up in the "exploration" threads, simply because I'm a big-time Explorer, and STO has a great deal of hope for me. I'm trying to keep expectations low, but there's always hope. As a computer programmer, I also have ideas on how the random-system generator could work, and how it could record our systems without taking multi-gigabytes of disk space. Here's my ideas in a (very big) nutshell:

Each system has some randomly rolled "stats." These stats are kept in a simple text array that the client's graphics engine uses to show what things look like. The actual location in the system (XYZ coords) could either be part of the array, or even generated on the fly - the planet should not be in the exact same spot each time you warp in, as long as it is roughly the same distance from the system's center it could be anywhere in it's orbital path: things do move in space. So the array mostly just keeps track of the type of objects and their relative distances from the center of the system (not necessarily a Star). So here are my ideas of stats:

Stars : 0 - 10 per system, differing types/classes (brown/white dwarf through Red Giant)
Planets: 0 - 50 per system, differing sizes/types/classes (gas giants, balls of rock, earth-type, rings, etc)
Moons: 0 - 20 per planet, again with differing sizes and types
Asteroids: 0 - 10 fields, random sizes, density, any extras like magnetics, radiation, etc
Nebulae: 0 - 5 with effects like sensor/comm disruption, shield/hull damage, radtiation, organic life support, etc
Resources: 0 - 5 useful things like dilithium, hull metals, energy sources, etc
Stellar Objects: 0 - 5 including cosmic strings, quantuum filaments, black/white holes, etc
Anomalies: 0 - 1 worm holes, temporal anomalies, mirror universes, stuff from episodes
Artifacts: 0 - 1 Ancient alien artifacts, dead ships, Dyson Sphere/Ringworlds, alien probes or ruins
Life: 0 - 1, planetary civilizations (plus tech level!), interplanetary life (Galaxy's Child, Tin Man, etc), nebula life, energy-based

Things like the colors of the atmosphere, terrain/flora types, etc are part of the random rolls, and recorded in the text array. Sizes should also be flexible - a nebula, for example, could be an isolated cloud or it could fill the entire system. As text, the array itself is only a couple of kilobytes, so you could track thousands of systems with only a small hard drive footprint. This should be flexible enough to turn up really odd random things, like a burnt- out planet with the remains of a dead civilization hidden in the outer edge of a red giant's skin - an old race killed by their sun expanding...

So when a system is generated, it keeps a text-list of the rolled stats in a database, along with "coordinates" that the player can use to find the system again. Places with useful resources or life forms can then be revisisted with missions to make contact/ enslave/ mine/harvest etc. The universe grows as we discover it, and can then we can use our discoveries in later missions.

Does this make sense? Any other inspired ideas?

[OrabIbo]

So when a system is generated, it keeps a text-list of the rolled stats in a database, along with "coordinates" that the player can use to find the system again. Places with useful resources or life forms can then be revisisted with missions to make contact/ enslave/ mine/harvest etc. The universe grows as we discover it, and can then we can use our discoveries in later missions.

Does this make sense? Any other inspired ideas?

Makes perfect sense to me! :D

I'm a little concerned about letting random generation actually create the universe though, without some set of controles. It would get out of control quick fast and in a hurry just to let it keep growing. I would think there would need to be some sort of limit on the rate of growth and how the system determined when to generate a new system and when to let ppl explore areas that were generated by others.

Letting it expand in this fashion would grow out of control quick fast and in a hurry. And it wouldn't allow them to add other quadrants and sectors for expansions.

I see a large section of space dedicated to randomly generated systems. And as it got explored it would expand until filled. Then after a predetermined amount of time. It would reset to allow ppl to explore all over.

I'm all for exploring, but I don't want STO to be a randomly generated mess either that has no rhyme or reason. I would rather ppl have a way to save their favorite 5 systems, and revist the last 20 they created. Out of these they can be traded and shared with our friends.

And those of use that are tech savvy can back these files up to save any more systems. although storing them all will be up to the user :)

[andrewprofit]

I think exploration, battle, manufacture should all fit into a framework which grants each player a couple of uber items each week. The more one plays tho the more medium and low quality items they get. So that
a person who explores, battles, manufactures, instances for 2 hours a week gets 1 or 2 high quality items and a couple medium and a couple low quality items.

A person who plays for 100 hours a week exploration, battle, manufacture gets 2 - 3 high quality items several hundred medium and a thousand low quality items.

This will even the playing field greatly especially if the also eliminate the world of warcraft leveling system.

Then the game will be about gear. Leveling and exp should be for prestige and small improvements in accuracy.


Gear should be destroyable.

[Ocen]

I am so happy to see that they are including exploration, Im sick and tired of the MMO grind.

Any chance we may get to "Catalog gaseous anomolies"?

I dont know about everyone else, but after I get home from work and do all that needs to be done at home. I just want to relax. I would love to go on a 30min to one hour mission just charting things in a sector. Hanging out in my ready room drinking Earl grey tea. Looking out the window. And if the trailer is anything to go on, I think they have done an awesome job at rendering the beautiful 'landscape" of space.


Thanks