So, I'm a little worried about Cryptic running this game. Cheer me up?

[Sindahive]

I gave City of Heroes a good, hard try when it first came out. When I realized between 50 levels I'd only have what.. 8 abilities- and the neverending grindfest through "randomized" instances that looked the same, I gave up.

I was really disappointed, and while City of Heroes/Villains is still going strong, I'd really hate to see STO turn into a game like that. I -am- an avid Warcraft player and it has yet to let me down, but I'm not one of those "I hope this game is like WoW" people. I'm still going to give STO a chance, but I'd like to feel better about it.

Any encouraging words? Anyone feel the same?

[KCHii]

Nope. You're all alone. Now stop whining and get back to sickbay. Jake hurt his right wrist 'exercising'. Again.

Seriously though, check out the publicity materials and interviews. I think you'll be pleasently surprised. The Devs are definitely trying to take the game in the right direction, and that's always a good sign.

[WarpVis]

I gave City of Heroes a good, hard try when it first came out. When I realized between 50 levels I'd only have what.. 8 abilities- and the neverending grindfest through "randomized" instances that looked the same, I gave up.

I was really disappointed, and while City of Heroes/Villains is still going strong, I'd really hate to see STO turn into a game like that. I -am- an avid Warcraft player and it has yet to let me down, but I'm not one of those "I hope this game is like WoW" people. I'm still going to give STO a chance, but I'd like to feel better about it.

Any encouraging words? Anyone feel the same?

I play CoH/CoV I have a level 49 blaster and it is more like 20-30 abilities. I admit that the missions can be a tad repetitive but there are events and such that help keep things interesting. The main disapointment I have had with CoH/CoV is the lack of interaction with NPC character's beyond blasting badguys. From what I have read it appears that Cryptic intends to allow more interaction with those you meet beyond the occasional phaser battle. If they look at Interplay's efforts with 25th Anniversery and Judgement Rites on how a mission should go together then I think they will be alright.

[_Pax_]

I gave City of Heroes a good, hard try when it first came out. When I realized between 50 levels I'd only have what.. 8 abilities- and the neverending grindfest through "randomized" instances that looked the same, I gave up.
... 8 abilities ... ROFLMAO. By the time you hit level 50, just counting gained powers ...

At level 1, you have Brawl, Sprint, one Primary, and one Secondary (and for the past year, also gain an Origin-based power);
Long-time players may gain 1, 2, or 3 additional permanent powers (as soon as their Veteran's Rewards status reaches the right thresholds), some of which were level-dependant (mostly the "teleport to _" stuff, which was keyed to level 3 so you couldn't screw yourself by teleporting out of the tutorial)
Certain retail packages grant 1 or more additional powers, sometimes level-limtied (for the same reasons as the Vet teleports)
At level 2, you get a new power;
At level 2, you get Rest;
At level 4, you get a new power;
At level 6, you get a new power;
At level 8, you get a new power;
At level 10, you get a new power;
At level 12, you get a new power;
At level 14, you get a new power;
At level 16, you get a new power;
At level 18, you get a new power;
At level 20, you get a new power;
At level 22, you get a new power;
At level 24, you get a new power;
At level 26, you get a new power;
At level 28, you get a new power;
At level 30, you get a new power;
At level 32, you get a new power;
At level 35, you get a new power;
At level 38, you get a new power;
At level 41, you get a new power;
At level 44, you get a new power;
At level 47, you get a new power;
At level 49, you get a new power;


Not counting any Veterans' powers, nor any from specific retai package bonusses, that's twenty-eight powers. And along the way you're almost certainly going to collect a bunch of temporary powers, too!

With 34 months of Veteran time when I left (just at the start of September, actually), upon hitting only level three, I would have:

Rest
Brawl
My choice of "Sprint", "Prestige Run", "Prestige Swift", "Prestige Dash", or "Prestige Quick"
Power Slide (CoH Collector's edition)
Veteran Supergroup Teleport power
Veteran Melee power (choice of "Sands of Mu" or "Ghost Slaying Axe")
Veteran Ranged power (choice of "Nemesis Staff" or "Blackwand")
Origin-determined attack power
Prestige "Jump Jet" power (from Good vs Evil edition)
Prestige "Pocket D Teleport" power (from Good vs Evil edition)
First power in my Secondary powerset
Two powers from my Primary powerset (limited to the first 4 options)


... that's twelve powers right there. At level three.

Any encouraging words? Anyone feel the same?
No, and no.

Instead, I advise you to actually KNOW what you're talking about, before you slam ANY game. :rolleyes:

[Sindahive]

I did play the game- when it came out. I ran around with a Katana and had two to three slicing abilities and one AoE slicing one. It was really, really boring. Maybe they changed it?

Thanks WarpVis and Hadron. No thanks to the fanboy.

[minago]

Any encouraging words?

http://www.startrekonline.com/videos

scroll down a bit and you'll will come across las vegas webcast jack talks about what they are aiming for in the game

hopefully that'll help some

[Fluxion]

Instead, I advise you to actually KNOW what you're talking about, before you slam ANY game. :rolleyes:

Well, that's probably a little harsh. He may have his numbers wrong, but I think his count is probably being being colored by his overall disappointment for the game. I certainly understand his misgivings about CoX, because I shared them. I'm not faulting anyone who loves the game---more power to them. But I found the game to be unbearable repetitive and monotonous after a fairly short time. I hope Cryptic has learned well from CoX, and won't repeat any of the mistakes they made with that one. I have every reason to believe they have. :)

[blackfx]

Cryptic is an excellent group of developers, you will not be dissappointed with their Star Trek Universe. I have to say that they have the heart for this more than anyone and I'm greatful that they chose this title!

Besides atleast they are fans and they ARE making this game happen. They have my full support!

[Hagon]

I can't really agree about having limited amounts of abilities in CoX, but I can agree on the repetitive nature of the missions, and have voiced my concern about it on this forum before. I was fortunate to actually get a response from a dev saying that they'd learnt a lot from CoX, and that kind of assured me they'll not make the same mistake again.

This seems to be a savvy group they have working on this game. I'm not one to blindly follow along, not in the least, but they're keeping me happy so far. I'm sure I won't agree with every decision, no one will, but I'm not worried about there being too many of them that I don't like.

[headlockman]

I'm sure it will have some similair features , but in a great way, such as character customization!
The new features I'm sure will be awesome and completly new and different :)

[sylvermane64]

We already have a "Complain about CoX" thread here.....

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=10729

Do we really need another?

[AaronH]

It is important to realize that CoX know is not the same game as when it launched. It is really a testamint to Cryptics style that they have continuously expanded it (to the extreme) since its launch. Players now have way more powers by the time they reach 50 than they used to (my mastermind fills five trays!)

That is actually why I am looking foreward to cryptic's development of this game, because of their commitment to make a MMO that just continues to grow and keep my interest. CoX has a lot of problems, but from listening to the development talk on champions the big thing I have picked up on is that they have learned from those mistakes, and won't be making them again. Creating a more flexible base system to allow addition of later content, being prepared to listen to the fans/players about their game decisions, not focusing on creating hordes of generic missions but creating tools to create more detailed missions. I really hope they have also decided to abandon the wall of text system, but I can't remember if that was cryptic that talked about that or somebody else. Ultimately while a lot of htis was talked about for champions development is was talked about by the management types, which speaks to a generall design strategy, and I am willing to bet it will carry over to STO. Everything they have said so far about STO really makes me believe this game will be nothing like STO, just listen to the things they have talked about and it should really be pretty clear.

[_Pax_]

I did play the game- when it came out.
Four years ago, and before the advent of CoV. So yes, a lot has changed. But even when you joined? Two powers you choose at level 1, sprint, rest, brawl, then one power every even level from 2-32, a power at 35, and a power at 38. That's 23, not 8. Even discounting the "universal" sprint/rest/brawl, and only including powers you actually choose ... 20.

I have no problem with people who dislike X or Y game for a reason that's based on fact. It's just misinformation/i] that I've got a serious problem with.

(Note, I [i]haven't disputed the point of limited mission variety, which IMO is indeed CoX's biggest flaw to date.)

[Captain_Intrepid]

From what I heard, WoW is a grindfest with shoddy character customization.

So while they have bigger numbers of those who likes basic games, it's not the thing that would grab my attention for long.

If you are worried about Cryptic developing the game, your fears are rather misplaced. CoH/V is the sum of more than one company, with mistakes made on both accounts (then again, developers have changed MMO philosophies since '04). Cryptic has grown up as a development company and is expanding in experience as well as size.

[Sindahive]

Perhaps it was the class I was playing, then. I felt like the amount of useful abilities I had was slim to none. This isn't a complain about CoX thread- it's more of a "give me reasons why STO is going to be awesome and not CoX" thread.

Plenty more positive, imo.

[Sprite101]

Any encouraging words? Anyone feel the same?

Let me put it this way: Would you feel better if Sony Online Entertainment handled STO?

**shudders**

[jhem99]

WOuld you feel better if Cryptic had hired PE managers?

[Syphus]

Perhaps it was the class I was playing, then. I felt like the amount of useful abilities I had was slim to none. This isn't a complain about CoX thread- it's more of a "give me reasons why STO is going to be awesome and not CoX" thread.

Plenty more positive, imo.

To be honest I played for a month and I had the same experience with the stealth class (can't remember for the life of me what they were called).

Then I played the other classes and loved every one I tried. It had a lot of fun aspects in the game and if I knew some more people playing and didnt have other games I was committed too I would probably still be playing, to this day.

However people seem to missing the true question. Can my Klingon character dress up in pink knee high boots, pink cowgirl hat and pink underpants? ;)

[Sindahive]

I would die if SOE got the rights to STO. DIE.

I think I played a Scrapper, Katana spec. It was four years ago, so I don't remember. That and a blaster rifle guy. They were both really, really boring.

[Koboldfodder]

Well, not that anyone is reading this or probably cares seeing as it is my first post....but I am totally worried about this game.

Cryptic does good MMOs. Meaning they do a nice little combat game where you have instances and can jump right in and learn without any trouble. COH is the perfect example. That game succeeded because it ran well on just about every computer and it was easy to learn and easy to play.

But, there was no depth to it. None what so ever. In fact, if you consider it a MMORPG (and I dont) I would say it is probably the shallowest game out there. Yes, its pretty much bug free and hums along on anyones 3 year old computer and it plays VERY nice for what it is. But it is not a game where you have depth of character.

Champions Online, the next superhero game (basically COH part2) is the same way.

Dont get me wrong, COH is really fun and CO is going to be fun as well....but what's the allure of Star Trek.


Star Trek is about ideas and choices. It's NOT about the exploration of space, but the exploration of the human mind as they advance with the centuries.

I have a funny feeling that Cryptic is going to make a star-trek themed combat simulator with ships and avatars and instances. To me, that is hollow and is completely missing the point of what Star Trek is.

Cryptic does nice little games, but let's be honest. Star Trek is a massive galaxy filled with more lore than the Star Wars world. But it all revolves around choices and humans are the main ingredient.

Star Trek is not about combat. Combat has very little to do with what Roddenbery envisioned all those years ago.

Just putting in ship to ship combat or ground to ground combat or PVP is simply not going to do. You need to find the root of what makes Star Trek unique.

Character choices, individuality and freedom to do what you want. I would say as far as computer games and successful MMO's are concerned, this is the complete opposite of a game like EQ or WOW or even SWG.

EVE Online sounds actually closer to Star Trek than this game (so far). And that is only because tradeskills are such a massive undertaking in that game.

If Crypitc can make a game that is heavy on tradeskills, freedom, character development, and human ideas instead of spending time on what loot the Klingon Chancellor drops when he is killed, they maybe they have the beginnings of a solid game.

I am only judging this by my experience playing COH, and I enjoy that game a lot...but the things that make that game great are the complete opposite of what you need to make a great Star Trek game.

I really dont see them pulling it off.

[Trekkie]

Honestly, if I had to choose a developer for Star Trek Online I would definitely pick Cryptic Studios anyway because they seem to actually know what their playerbase wants and seem to be receptive to the community.

[Sindahive]

A valid, constructive post. Thank you.

@ the post before last, btw. Not being sarcastic. Lol.

[Super_Goku]

Well I have never played COV or COH but I do believe Cryptic can handle this game. They have Lots of experiance with making them and Obviously everyone learns from mistakes they have made. So I think that This game will be very well constructed and In depth.

I totally aggree with Koboldfodder on the Eve online part. I DO play Eve online and I think that The tradeskills would fit perfectly with STO, and that STO has the potential to Be better than Eve online or any space mmo to date.

[Sindahive]

Eh. I find tradeskills dreadfully boring and nothing more than a money sink. I can't stand EVE because it's time consuming and combat/travel is bland- in addition to a distaste for tradeskills.

While STO shouldn't have a purely combat focus, Captains don't sit in their bridges tinkering with materials. It's about diplomacy, exploration, and keeping the peace.

However, a Bird of Prey would probably be more combat focused.

[TheMasterpiece]

I think cryptic is a wonderful studio to run this game. who else would you prefer? blizzard is a huge name in MMOs but do we really want WoW in space? i dont.

Cryptic has a long history of making solid fun MMOs AND champions will come out prior to STO allowoing them to polish everything in the engine, get the servers running great, and just test everything out

[RookActual]

I think cryptic is a wonderful studio to run this game. who else would you prefer? blizzard is a huge name in MMOs but do we really want WoW in space? i dont.

Cryptic has a long history of making solid fun MMOs AND champions will come out prior to STO allowoing them to polish everything in the engine, get the servers running great, and just test everything out

There is a very small list of developers who can consider themselves successes in MMO design. Cryptic is on that list. If Paramount offered the license to Cryptic, it will be their first good choice for the franchise in a long time. If Cryptic solicited for the Trek license, then they took on an IP with a somewhat cursed history, but if they can't pull it off, who else could? After all my research this past few days on MMO developers, I don't think Cryptic is necessarily the only one, but definitely the best hope. This was a measured statement, too, but certainly my opinion.

Say what you will about CoX, but it is a unique and individual IP among MMOs that are typically fantasy based, and seems to have a stable subscription base. If anyone were to try and tackle something that requires a different touch, my faith lies where the license currently does. Trek can't be handled the same way any other MMO is. It's closest facsimile is EvE and if that IP has anything in common with Trek, it's because the developers were influenced by Trek. I'm not trashing EvE, it has it's fans, I'm just contrasting it to Trek.

[TheMasterpiece]

so we agree?

[RookActual]

so we agree?

.....;).....

[Syphus]

I believe very few games enforce people to have to craft to continue. However I am a very strong advocate of having a strong crafting environment in game for those that do enjoy it. To be honest I wouldn't play an RPG if all I was interested in was blowing things up and PvP. I am, of course, interested in such things but also a broader spectrum.

There is very little I can compare to the satisfaction I got out of my fake business in SWG pre NGE. Considerabley more satisfying than killing anyone in PvP in any MMO.

[RookActual]

There is very little I can compare to the satisfaction I got out of my fake business in SWG pre NGE. Considerabley more satisfying than killing anyone in PvP in any MMO.

That is the thing that disappointed me the most about SWG, I can never argue that the crafting mechanics in that game were just awesome. Then made utterly and completely useless by the fact you could get better equipment, easier, by just doing raids.

[Syphus]

...

I agree completely... the crafting system is still a mess. But is slowly improving.

Personally I've always thought the ideal crafting/loot system would be:
Crafters make all equipment better than anything you can get non crafted.
However you can enhance crafted equipment with looted drops.

For example you have a laser gun crafted. You can improve the crafted weapon by adding looted bits to it.

This sort of system is also easly managible by decay... the crafted item can decay and you can still keep your looted items for your newly crafted item.

Sort of like pearls in lightsabers in SWG but doing different things.

I think as soon as crafted and looted items are competing the system becomes unmanigable, with one usually coming off betterthan the other.

[JMD10222]

I have faith in Cryptic based on everything I have read and seen, and Im not worried at all. I have been following this game since 2005 and Cryptic has already given us more and treated us better than Perpetual (I feel dirty every time I type that word:p) ever did. Cryptic really wanted the Star Trek license for a while and that shows they had a vision for some time and really wanted to make the game. The Devs are Star Trek fans and that alone gives me comfort that they will be making a game that they themselves would like to play. So lets everyone stop the gloom and doom talk and speculation until its warranted.;)

[KO_Gilligan]

....
I'm not one of those "I hope this game is like WoW" people.
...



Imagine that, after scrolling through the tens of thousands of pro-WoW posts, I finally read one that dares to be different.

[Father_Origin]

hmmm your worried.

how many mmo's has cryptic made that were flops?

none come to mind, so am not too worried.

[_Pax_]

Cryptic does good MMOs. Meaning they do a nice little combat game where you have instances and can jump right in and learn without any trouble. COH is the perfect example. That game succeeded because it ran well on just about every computer and it was easy to learn and easy to play.

But, there was no depth to it. None what so ever. In fact, if you consider it a MMORPG (and I dont) I would say it is probably the shallowest game out there. Yes, its pretty much bug free and hums along on anyones 3 year old computer and it plays VERY nice for what it is. But it is not a game where you have depth of character.
*shrug* For one, define "depth of character"; IMO and IME, any "depth" to yoru character, in a multiplayer game, comes from YOU, not the game.

For two - COH was Cryptics first-ver product of any kind. Seen in that light, and it's flaws are not just excusable ... they might as well not exist at all.

Champions Online, the next superhero game (basically COH part2) is the same way.
Do you know something that almost noone outside Cryptic knows? BEcause, um, ChO isn't even in Beta yet, last I heard ...

Star Trek is about ideas and choices. It's NOT about the exploration of space, but the exploration of the human mind as they advance with the centuries.
O_o

...

o_O

...

Nope, sorry. Not seein' it. I never got an impression of any such high-falutin' ideals as all that. TOS was a Space Opera, with a better than usual grounding in at least MAYBE-real science. TNG was a Soap Opera on a starship, with a generous sprinkling of action scenes. But, "exploration of the human mind" ...? No, I just don't see that.

Star Trek is not about combat. Combat has very little to do with what Roddenbery envisioned all those years ago.
ROFL. You need to watch the TOS episodes again ... without the rose-colored goggles and blinders. Most episodes, Kirk's shirt got torn during one or another fight sequence ... seriously, that happened so often it became a meme, back before the Internet's meme-incubating booster effect ...!

EVE Online sounds actually closer to Star Trek than this game (so far). And that is only because tradeskills are such a massive undertaking in that game.
Then, as I've told others who're so far off the mark: Go. Play. EVE. Seriously - you're judging what STO is or isn't, based on absolutely nothing.

[_Pax_]

That is the thing that disappointed me the most about SWG, I can never argue that the crafting mechanics in that game were just awesome. Then made utterly and completely useless by the fact you could get better equipment, easier, by just doing raids.
Yeh. I like WoW's crafting at it's core - the basic way it works, I mean - but I wish that craftable gear stayed competitive with dropped stuff throughout the whole game. Neitehr one being better - each just being slightly different in nature and specific benefits. I even like how some of the nicer drops are, themselves, crafting recipes.

Heck, I wish that was true for ALL games.

[minago]

who let pax in here i smell shenanigans

[DanSeale]

There is a very small list of developers who can consider themselves successes in MMO design. Cryptic is on that list. If Paramount offered the license to Cryptic, it will be their first good choice for the franchise in a long time. If Cryptic solicited for the Trek license, then they took on an IP with a somewhat cursed history, but if they can't pull it off, who else could? After all my research this past few days on MMO developers, I don't think Cryptic is necessarily the only one, but definitely the best hope. This was a measured statement, too, but certainly my opinion.

Say what you will about CoX, but it is a unique and individual IP among MMOs that are typically fantasy based, and seems to have a stable subscription base. If anyone were to try and tackle something that requires a different touch, my faith lies where the license currently does. Trek can't be handled the same way any other MMO is. It's closest facsimile is EvE and if that IP has anything in common with Trek, it's because the developers were influenced by Trek. I'm not trashing EvE, it has it's fans, I'm just contrasting it to Trek.

You and I may not always agree on everything ... BUT IMHO this is very well stated. I think some times all of us forget that how a game is put togeather as far as stability and functionality has a lot to do with the possibilities of a successful game.

Yes .. Cryptic can learn a few things from other games that have been successful and add it to their style of programming. THAT after is what makes the game stable. Graphics, grinding for achievements (wheather honor, tools weapons or other items), WHERE or HOW PvP or PvE takes place are all items that are more a matter of individual taste and will need to be things that Cryptic will to decide on. BUT if any developer does not understand how to do all of that with programming that is stable when litteraly hundreds of folks log onto server(s) then it all becomes rather a moot point.

This post by Rook is probably one of the better points to be made on this discussion. Evidentally Cryptic apareltly does have a good track record in this department.

Does this mean that STO will be a mirror of other games they have released? Probably not. It DOES mean that these folks know how to put togeather a quality product that is very functional and stable from a programming stand point of view. There is no doubt in my mind they are very much aware of the high profie game that they are dealing with. There is no doubt in my mind that they are aware of last Trek game and it's dissapointment from a stand point of on line play and other "STO" idea that was dropped.

Yet they willingly took the challenge . IMHO there is a lot at stake for them.

Ok Cryptic .. it's up to you now!

NO pressure .. right ?

:D

(personally I think they can pull it off)

[General_Erko]

No I don't have any fears. I think Cryptic has the right stuff. I played CoH for quire awhile and have signed up for the CO beta.

I think they will do a good job on STO. I was in both the CoH beta and CoV, smooth play and few really terrible bugs, they make polished games imho.

[_Pax_]

who let pax in here i smell shenanigans
I beg your pardon? :confused:

[Phlashman]

Like "most" SoftCo's its a matter of trial and error, practice and experience. Ya get better the more ya do it. Like all things, its a learning curve. I hope its done well, we'll see. I honestly have no experience with them or their products so I'm open minded and hopeful they do it right. I do know this much, working on computers as a career since the late 70s, (Yes we had computers in the 70s) has taught me that updates and or upgrades need to happen every 6 mos or less to keep things moving along. It keeps interest and keeps the whole thing "fresh".