Limited weaponry/ammunition?

[STO-Stucco]

They keep saying ship to ship combat will be slowed down to help us be more tactical/rational making smart battle decisions. Hope it isn't just jump into a skirmish and fire till one ship takes to much damage and blows up. I hear how they are saying ships will be customizable and upgradable and hope that means to weaponry.

Depending on your ship type, rank and whatever else that you truly only have x amount of torpedoes, x amount of quantum torpedoes, phaser banks can be depleted during long battles. special weapons can be damaged during battle or malfunction etc... All this can be increased through upgrades to increase a weapons effectiveness and reliability or quantity of torpedoes or phaser banks. I hope it isn't just sit back and press fire and you have infinite torpedoes and you can fire phasers till your kids get married.

Maybe make restocking depend on your rank as for how much you get. You will always be given a free set amount of torpedoes from your Star Base and a certain amount of recharge to your phasers. More recharge time can be earned through missions along with torpedoes. Maybe even something like defeating a ship, that it is automatic that you salvage stuff from it such as torpedoes, phaser banks, material etc.. If you are the first to engage a ship and stay with it till it is destroyed, you get a better salvage supply then a ship that engage sometime after you did. Since we are getting Experience points in this universe, got to get something from winning a battle.

Just some thoughts on how they might set up combat. Man I can't wait for more details from Cryptic.

[UfcFan78]

100% agree. I assumed that there would be ammo/energy limits on weapons. It would make for more interesting battles.

[sylvermane64]

For the Torpedoes, yes, there should be a limit, and you should have to restock. I don't believe that how many you get should depend on your rank though.

That would be like the Quartermaster saying

"Sorry, I know your ship can hold 20 torps, but because of your rank, we are only limiting you to 4."

Phaser Arrays recharge over time, so there is no need to replenish them.

[AugustusTirion]

I'm not a big fan of a limited ammo supplies.
For me it's one of the 'fun > reality' situations.

It's just not fun getting 75% through a mission, running out of ammo, and needing to fly 10 min to the nearest base, 5 min to restock, 10 min to get back to where you were. 25 min wasted... bleh :(
Less fun: you were in a group when it happened and your buddies aren't too happy about you wasting their time. :eek:
Worst of all: The group leader got mad as hell about it, kicks you, and recruits a buddy of his to finish. They get credit for completing the mission and you need to start from scratch. :mad:

[Decius]

For the Torpedoes, yes, there should be a limit, and you should have to restock. I don't believe that how many you get should depend on your rank though.

That would be like the Quartermaster saying

"Sorry, I know your ship can hold 20 torps, but because of your rank, we are only limiting you to 4."

Phaser Arrays recharge over time, so there is no need to replenish them.

I agree, a ship should hold the amount of torpedoes that it can fit. If you make any ship modifications which increase the amount of torpedoes that you can have total, then sure increase it even further. I don't think it should be based on rank, it's.. just too much of an artifical restrainment.

[Sevenblade]

Well, phasers draw energy from the warp core, I believe, so they shouldn't run out. If they did, that would mean not only did you drain the phasers, but the engines, life support, shields, and everything else that's powered by the warp core...which is, well, everything! I would definitely like to see a limited number of torpedoes, though, or at least a significantly longer recharge time for them.

[RookActual]

Torpedo limits would be reasonable, but really only punishing to you if you're the moron who forgot to resupply after three battles. It should be enough that you won't want to fire them wastefully.

[Sevenblade]

Torpedo limits would be reasonable, but really only punishing to you if you're the moron who forgot to resupply after three battles. It should be enough that you won't want to fire them wastefully.

You just know though that every noob who first gets his hands on an Akira is going to load it full of quantums, then do a full spread on every enemy he meets for the next week or so. It'll work for weaker enemys who can't handle the first salvo, but the rest of us will just boost the shields, shrug it off and laugh at them, and then shoot out their phasers and engines. With no torpedoes, phasers, or engines, can you say "Sitting duck" :D;)?

[RookActual]

You just know though that every noob who first gets his hands on an Akira is going to load it full of quantums.

I'm not a noob. :mad:

[ElbyStarfire]

My name is Elby and I support the limited torpedo supply initiative! Make people THINK when they get into a battle. Fight for Quartermaster rights!

My name is Elby and I approve this message. [Brought to you by the Council of Quartermasters PAC]

[Father_Origin]

Phasors, or Phasor like weapons....recharge, so they just need maint. from time to time

Photons, or seeking weapons need to be in stock..ie - you can run out of them

[USS_Parallax]

Some games are made stupified by ammo that you have to reload too often. In BF1942 you could kill like 10 people with a clip. In BF2142 you'd be lucky if you got two. This lead to you dying soon after you killed 1-2 people because you're fodder as you reload which takes 3-5 seconds.

Plus we're dealing with phasers anyways. It wouldn't make sense. Those things reload so rarely we never see it happen on TV.

Replace reload with heating, recharge, etc. Basically you couldn't just fire your phaser in one continual phaser blast non-stop. It would overheat or something and then take a few seconds to recharge. Overheating is what they use to replace ammo in many scifi games. Basically if you don't shoot too much or too often you'll never even notice it but if you spam too much your weapon is disabled for a short time.

[RookActual]

Some games are made stupified by ammo that you have to reload too often. In BF1942 you could kill like 10 people with a clip. In BF2142 you'd be lucky if you got two. This lead to you dying soon after you killed 1-2 people because you're fodder as you reload which takes 3-5 seconds.

Plus we're dealing with phasers anyways. It wouldn't make sense. Those things reload so rarely we never see it happen on TV.

Replace reload with heating, recharge, etc. Basically you couldn't just fire your phaser in one continual phaser blast non-stop. It would overheat or something and then take a few seconds to recharge. Overheating is what they use to replace ammo in many scifi games. Basically if you don't shoot too much or too often you'll never even notice it but if you spam too much your weapon is disabled for a short time.

World War Online. My buddy was the only person that played a supply sergeant. He started farming ammo on ebay for the same as real ammo cost. I know, I know...farmers are morons and the like...but it was actually pretty hilarious. Then the game died...of course it never really lived.

[cocoa-jin]

They keep saying ship to ship combat will be slowed down to help us be more tactical/rational making smart battle decisions. Hope it isn't just jump into a skirmish and fire till one ship takes to much damage and blows up. I hear how they are saying ships will be customizable and upgradable and hope that means to weaponry.

Depending on your ship type, rank and whatever else that you truly only have x amount of torpedoes, x amount of quantum torpedoes, phaser banks can be depleted during long battles. special weapons can be damaged during battle or malfunction etc... All this can be increased through upgrades to increase a weapons effectiveness and reliability or quantity of torpedoes or phaser banks. I hope it isn't just sit back and press fire and you have infinite torpedoes and you can fire phasers till your kids get married.

Maybe make restocking depend on your rank as for how much you get. You will always be given a free set amount of torpedoes from your Star Base and a certain amount of recharge to your phasers. More recharge time can be earned through missions along with torpedoes. Maybe even something like defeating a ship, that it is automatic that you salvage stuff from it such as torpedoes, phaser banks, material etc.. If you are the first to engage a ship and stay with it till it is destroyed, you get a better salvage supply then a ship that engage sometime after you did. Since we are getting Experience points in this universe, got to get something from winning a battle.

Just some thoughts on how they might set up combat. Man I can't wait for more details from Cryptic.

I like the idea of limited ammo, but i dont like the idea of being able to upgrade the amount of torpedo stores. I can see allocating more space for torpedos storage, but it should come at the expense of something else...like crew.

I personally dont like too much upgrading because it essentially turns into "buying your uberness", relying on your hull to improve instead of yourself. I'd rather see faction upgrades where there is a "Cold War" of technology where the whole faction is provided the applicable upgrade over time as they become avilable to the faction. That way there is incentive to further the faction as it makes those on your side recieve better equipment, and possibly get it sooner.

Also weapons that dont use ammo shouldnt have limits on the number of shots, though I can see energy weapons like phasers drawing from the avilable power sligtly faster than it can be replenished, meaning you can temporarily run out of shots based on power management.

[RookActual]

I like the idea of limited ammo, but i dont like the idea of being able to upgrade the amount of torpedo stores. I can see allocating more space for torpedos storage, but it should come at the expense of something else...like crew.


The ships are going to be modular in some sense, but each ship will likely have it's limit of 'sockets'....it's absolutely reasonable that a ship could be built with expanded batteries. It would clearly come at a cost to these modules, a ship may be large, but it's still only so large.

[Sevenblade]

I'm not a noob. :mad:

You just know though that every noob who first gets his hands on an Akira is going to load it full of quantums, then do a full spread on every enemy he meets for the next week or so.

We all know that, Rook. Don't take it out of context :p

[RookActual]

We all know that, Rook. Don't take it out of context :p

It was in perfect context. I certainly intend on doing that very thing! In fact, I'm hoping the new term for ganking with an Akira, crammed full of torpedoes, will be named in my honor.

"Great, here comes an Akira, I bet he's going to Rook us."

[Sevenblade]

Some games are made stupified by ammo that you have to reload too often. In BF1942 you could kill like 10 people with a clip. In BF2142 you'd be lucky if you got two. This lead to you dying soon after you killed 1-2 people because you're fodder as you reload which takes 3-5 seconds.

Plus we're dealing with phasers anyways. It wouldn't make sense. Those things reload so rarely we never see it happen on TV.

Replace reload with heating, recharge, etc. Basically you couldn't just fire your phaser in one continual phaser blast non-stop. It would overheat or something and then take a few seconds to recharge. Overheating is what they use to replace ammo in many scifi games. Basically if you don't shoot too much or too often you'll never even notice it but if you spam too much your weapon is disabled for a short time.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Since the only way you could run out of charge for the phasers is to literally suck your ship dry, overheating is the thing that makes the most sense to limit your shots. I'm betting Cryptic is already planning this, as overheating replacing reloading for sci-fi games is old hat by now. Seriously, that concept has to be at least 2 decades old. It should just be a given for a game like this.

[Sevenblade]

It was in perfect context. I certainly intend on doing that very thing! In fact, I'm hoping the new term for ganking with an Akira, crammed full of torpedoes, will be named in my honor.

"Great, here comes an Akira, I bet he's going to Rook us."

Lmao. I can't wait for my Prometheus's regenerative shields to shrug 'em off like flies :p

Of course, the Sevenblade maneuver would be to spam the MVAM button :cool:;)

Any other noob skills we can think of?

[Trekkie]

I definitely would not mind seeing something like this in the game because it would definitely help to make combat more tactical, which I believe is a good thing.

[Vicelance]

I agree Phasers if used too much should overheat and require a cooldown time, and Quantum torpedos or any other special kind of torpedo should be limited and must be refilled at a starbase, shipyard, or friendly planet where storage facilities exist. For regular photon torpedos since some of the parts can be replicated perhaps they can be restocked over time without returning to a base.

And when I get an Akira I plan to fire all torpedos at the first thing that the computer lets me target:D

[Sevenblade]

I agree Phasers if used too much should overheat and require a cooldown time, and Quantum torpedos or any other special kind of torpedo should be limited and must be refilled at a starbase, shipyard, or friendly planet where storage facilities exist. For regular photon torpedos since some of the parts can be replicated perhaps they can be restocked over time without returning to a base.

And when I get an Akira I plan to fire all torpedos at the first thing that the computer lets me target:D

Oh god, the Rook mentality has spread...
:p:D

[AugustusTirion]

I definitely would not mind seeing something like this in the game because it would definitely help to make combat more tactical, which I believe is a good thing.
How is running out of ammo 'more tactical'?

PvP example:
You and your squadron have made an excursion into the Neutral Zone. After 2 successful engagements you're on your way back to reload. You're intercepted by a 3rd enemy squadron and successfully fight them off (you had the brains to start heading back before you ran out of ammo.)
Just before crossing back into your territory you're attacked by a 4th enemy squadron (that has not been actively working with any of the squadrons, so we're not talking about a situation where they have advanced knowledge that you've run out of 'bullets'.)
You're entire squadron dies. Not because of any intelligent play on the enemies part, but simply because of luck.
Bleh.

IMO, combat tactics should be adjusted around reload times, not ridiculously small ammo capacities.

10 min from base to enemy contact in the Neutral zone.
15 min of fighting (3 enemy engagements)
10 min back to base.
5 min to reload.
10 min back to where the action is....
In other words: 35min of time sink for 15 min of action. BLEH! :(

[JMD10222]

How is running out of ammo 'more tactical'?

It makes you use your ammo wisely and not employ the "Rook Maneuver" and lob 35 torpedoes at one ship. :p

(although it would be more fun to do that:D)

[RookActual]

Oh god, the Rook mentality has spread...
:p:D

"Tactical Officer, engage maneuver Rook alpha 1."

"Umm, sir, is that really a maneuver? It just requires I push the red button a bunch of times."

"Never mind, helmsman, take over tactical and engage maneuver Rook Alpha 1. Tactical, go shove yourself in a torpedo tube."

"Aye sir."

[Sevenblade]

"Tactical Officer, engage maneuver Rook alpha 1."

"Umm, sir, is that really a maneuver? It just requires I push the red button a bunch of times."

"Never mind, helmsman, take over tactical and engage maneuver Rook Alpha 1. Tactical, go shove yourself in a torpedo tube."

"Aye sir."

When I modify my ship in the game, I'm going to put a big red button on my captain's chair console that just says "KILL!", just like that, in your honor. And it will shoot out thousands of Tribblepedos :cool:

[AugustusTirion]

It makes you use your ammo wisely...
I disagree.
Especially in PvP.

You face an equally armed ship.
You're enemy is clearly not making any effort to conserve his torpedo supply, which leaves you with 3 choices.
A) Try to win while conserving ammo (knowing that the most likely outcome is your own death)
B) Knowing you can't win if you conserve ammo, you perform the famous Monty Python maneuver: Run away (that's fun?)
C) Fight back with everything you've got!

Sorry, but I've got to believe nearly everyone will take option C (and then spend some 'oh-so-fun' time running back to base for more bullets).

[Sevenblade]

I disagree.
Especially in PvP.

You face an equally armed ship.
You're enemy is clearly not making any effort to conserve his torpedo supply, which leaves you with 3 choices.
A) Try to win while conserving ammo (knowing that the most likely outcome is your own death)
B) Knowing you can't win if you conserve ammo, you perform the famous Monty Python maneuver: Run away (that's fun?)
C) Fight back with everything you've got!

Sorry, but I've got to believe nearly everyone will take option C (and then spend some 'oh-so-fun' time running back to base for more bullets).

I prefer option B1) Throw thy Holy Hand Grenade :D

[ElbyStarfire]

OH Im sure you could manufacture more torpedoes for yourself given an ample supply of deuterium and anti-deuterium. No need to go back to base all the time. But Starships have limited stockpiles of photon torpedoes. When I say this, realize that a ship like the defiant has over 30, a ship like the Enterprise has somewhere in the neighborhood of 200. If you run out, you have been blasting away like crazy. (I acknowledge that a runabout probably only carries a handful).

It IS tempting to use the Rook Maneuver (I have been guilty of that in other games) and I probably will at least once if I command an Akira Class ship. :D

What I am suggesting is that an engagement should involve limited supplies of torpedoes. While you are in between engagements at warp you can be manufacturing more torpedoes (automatically) so you have your full stockpile at your next stop. Photon Torpedoes were meant to be powerful weapons. Limiting how many and how often they are fired seems fair and *shudder* Canon.

Phasers are another story. As long as you have available power, you have phasers.

[RookActual]

I disagree.
Especially in PvP.

You face an equally armed ship.
You're enemy is clearly not making any effort to conserve his torpedo supply, which leaves you with 3 choices.
A) Try to win while conserving ammo (knowing that the most likely outcome is your own death)
B) Knowing you can't win if you conserve ammo, you perform the famous Monty Python maneuver: Run away (that's fun?)
C) Fight back with everything you've got!

Sorry, but I've got to believe nearly everyone will take option C (and then spend some 'oh-so-fun' time running back to base for more bullets).

Starships should have enough storage in their batteries that this only becomes a problem if you lurk around in the PvP area all day long. You should only have to question your supply after the third, possibly the second battle(if you got a bit carried away).

[RookActual]

When I modify my ship in the game, I'm going to put a big red button on my captain's chair console that just says "KILL!", just like that, in your honor. And it will shoot out thousands of Tribblepedos :cool:

The Rook Maneuver requires that you spam Pwnton Tribblepedoes from an Akira class vessel. Can't forget the Pwnton.

[Sevenblade]

The Rook Maneuver requires that you spam Pwnton Tribblepedoes from an Akira class vessel. Can't forget the Pwnton.

Who could forget the Pwnton? :p

[RookActual]

Who could forget the Pwnton? :p

Im not going to let you, so don't worry about it. I wonder if cryptic will let me translate my overinflated post count into the amount of torpedoes I can carry aboard my ship.

[AugustusTirion]

...What I am suggesting is that an engagement should involve limited supplies of torpedoes. While you are in between engagements at warp you can be manufacturing more torpedoes (automatically) so you have your full stockpile at your next stop.....
OK, there's a compromise I like ;)

While not actively engaged in combat, your armory team builds more torpedoes from a stockpile of base materials you've got in cargo.

[Sevenblade]

Im not going to let you, so don't worry about it. I wonder if cryptic will let me translate my overinflated post count into the amount of torpedoes I can carry aboard my ship.

Psh, you don't want to be shooting hot air at the enemy :p

[Sevenblade]

OK, there's a compromise I like ;)

While not actively engaged in combat, your armory team builds more torpedoes from a stockpile of base materials you've got in cargo.

Yeah, that does kinda make more sense. I mean, it shouldn't be all that hard to make them, as long as you have the raw materials. I'm pretty sure you can't replicate them, but really, a photon torpedo would be capable today if we could stabilize and transport anti-matter easily enough. A photon torpedo is pretty much just a big case holding a lump of matter and an equal lump of anti-matter separated and contained by magnets. To detonate, turn off the magnets, and BOOM. Natural annihilation process directed towards the enemy means you win.

[RookActual]

Psh, you don't want to be shooting hot air at the enemy :p

Pfft, more like weapons grade reasoning, sir!

[cocoa-jin]

Lmao. I can't wait for my Prometheus's regenerative shields to shrug 'em off like flies :p

Of course, the Sevenblade maneuver would be to spam the MVAM button :cool:;)

Any other noob skills we can think of?

I thought shields were semi-permeable to matter, so your shields regenerative properties might not mean much...they'll stay nice a fresh for you, but your hull might be in shambles.

[Lizzio]

not into limited weapon use
except for the torp's like real Star trek

[Sevenblade]

I thought shields were semi-permeable to matter, so your shields regenerative properties might not mean much...they'll stay nice a fresh for you, but your hull might be in shambles.

Even better. I prefer my ships held together by duct tape, spit and force fields :D

But they'd kind of be pointless if they were semi-permeable. Even without people shooting torpedoes at you, ships have to deflect thousands of micrometeorites just being in space.

Neither matter nor highly-concentrated energy (i.e., weapons fire) can normally penetrate a shield.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Deflector_shield

[ElbyStarfire]

I only need ONE pwnton torpedo. Its made from the concentrated hate of Star Wars and Star Trek fanboys that for some odd reason do not like the direction those respective MMOs are taking. Unfortunately, if I fire the torpedo it will rip the fabric of time and space asunder destroying everything within ten light years. Q should never have made that torpedo for me. I hope Rook's pwnton torpedoes are of a lesser yield. :D

The only limits I support on phasers have to do with allocation of power during battle. I imagine you will not be able to fire phasers continuously without an eventual sacrifice in other systems such as deflectors, propulsion and even life support. It would take a darn lot of firing to get there though.

[Sevenblade]

Pfft, more like weapons grade reasoning, sir!

Is that what you call it?
To me, 'tis but a scratch. Have at thee!

[Sevenblade]

I only need ONE pwnton torpedo. Its made from the concentrated hate of Star Wars and Star Trek fanboys that for some odd reason do not like the direction those respective MMOs are taking. Unfortunately, if I fire the torpedo it will rip the fabric of time and space asunder destroying everything within ten light years. Q should never have made that torpedo for me. I hope Rook's pwnton torpedoes are of a lesser yield. :D

The only limits I support on phasers have to do with allocation of power during battle. I imagine you will not be able to fire phasers continuously without an eventual sacrifice in other systems such as deflectors, propulsion and even life support. It would take a darn lot of firing to get there though.

I think that's kinda the point of what they said with battle being a very tactical thing. It'll probably be about who can best handle all the energy shunting that will be going on. A volley of torpedoes is coming off your starboard stern, so you suck phaser energy or more out and divert it to the shields, then when they flare against your buffed shields, you draw that energy back to your weapons and hit them extra hard while they recharge. So it's really all how you want to battle. You can go all out offensive (shift power to phasers, full torpedo spread), hoping to punch through their shields quick and cripple them before they can damage, or you could divert power from weapons to shields, hoping to empty them out a bit, while withstanding their shots. Or a balance of the two, or whatever you can think of. That's why I like this system: you can fight however you want, and no style is necessarily "better" than another. You just pick how you fight, and you'd better be good at that style if you want to win.

[Siggy_23]

i cant remember which game did this but i really like the idea of a capacitor based reload system for phasers . . . meaning, that they would do the most damage when fully charged doing less and less as they were fired for a long stream it would be recharged by the warp core and transfering "all power to weapons" would simply recharge it faster allowing for better RoF and / or higher damage output . . . it would also allow for different phaser types . . . can anyone spell pulse phaser? :D

[Siggy_23]

also thinking that the Breen energy dampening weapon then comes into play . . . and heat doesnt make much sense in space . . . i mean its 3 kelvin out there! and once again, sorry about the block of text . . . my phone doesnt let me enter returns

[RookActual]

i cant remember which game did this but i really like the idea of a capacitor based reload system for phasers . . . meaning, that they would do the most damage when fully charged doing less and less as they were fired for a long stream it would be recharged by the warp core and transfering "all power to weapons" would simply recharge it faster allowing for better RoF and / or higher damage output . . . it would also allow for different phaser types . . . can anyone spell pulse phaser? :D

Sounds like an ER PPC or an Alpha Strike from Mechwarrior 4.

[Sevenblade]

Sounds like an ER PPC or an Alpha Strike from Mechwarrior 4.

Ugh...*drools at the thought of a PPC on a Federation ship* :D

[sdcabrad]

Yeah, the Mechwarriors had some sweet weaponry. I think we all agree that any Energy based weapon is going to need to Recharge at some point, and I think that if you have the option of setting for Stun vs Kill then it recharges faster etc... and Torpedoes, well thats a tough one, you can only carry so many, but starships are very large. Perhaps just set a limit before you need to Dock and reload your bays.

I also like the Capacitor method so you could actually shot a weak shot with a partial charge if you needed to.

Peace

[Siggy_23]

Sounds like an ER PPC or an Alpha Strike from Mechwarrior 4.

could have sworn it was a trek game . . .

[RookActual]

Ugh...*drools at the thought of a PPC on a Federation ship* :D

"How come the phaser banks on Rook's Akira just keep glowing brighter?"

"Eh, I dunno, but knowing him it's probably the cheesiest crap we ever saw."

"Oh, look, he bloweded up a planet. Yup, definitely cheesey."

could have sworn it was a trek game . . .

Well, Armada didn't have any weapons that capacitated to full strength, necessarily, but the special weapons and abilities were on cooldown timers. If I had to guess, and only because I haven't played these two games, it may have possibly been the second Elite Force or Shattered Universe.

[Siggy_23]

Well, Armada didn't have any weapons that capacitated to full strength, necessarily, but the special weapons and abilities were on cooldown timers. If I had to guess, and only because I haven't played these two games, it may have possibly been the second Elite Force or Shattered Universe. nah . . . it was either bridge commander or *shudder* star trek legacy

[Ahsoka]

Yes every ship can only carry X amount to torpedoes.

Phasers draw thier power from capasitors that fill from the impluse reactors.

The warp core is a field generator, and does not supply power to the ship.

Just like it does not move the ship, that is doen by the impluse engine.

Dang Im a girl, and I know this stuff

[RookActual]

I don't mind engineers being able to craft torpedoes, but it'd still have to be pretty slow..probably not enough to keep you from having to resupply if you're in the PvP area, but if you're willing to jump to a safe point and wait a while, sure.

[RookActual]

nah . . . it was either bridge commander or *shudder* star trek legacy

Maybe a Breen ship in the KM mod....

[Siggy_23]

Maybe a Breen ship in the KM mod....

idk . . . or maybe i thought it up on my own . . . hey im smarter than i thought . . . :D

[Cathbadh]

I think limits are necessary and right. If anyone expects to be firing Phasers ceaselessly I bet they're going to be disappointed. There will be recharge times, power distribution, etc. I do however think limits on Torpedo count will not be implemented - you can carry a full complement of hundreds probably. Like Phasers you could expect Torpedo types to differ along common missile lines like speed, manouverability, damage output, primary damage type, tracking vs dum-dum etc. Throw in reload times between each volley ;).

The whole concept of Alpha Strike will be in this game I'm guessing. I pity the person who's targeted by a rabid fleet of Klingons and on the receiving end of multiple Alphas :).

[J.L.Picard]

there are already ammo limits in the real ST. Phasers for example have a limit although insanely high since their power comes from the engines. torpedoes obviously have a limit and so do pulse cannons s shown in DS9 when they did there silly "ritual"

[Sevenblade]

Yes every ship can only carry X amount to torpedoes.

Phasers draw thier power from capasitors that fill from the impluse reactors.

The warp core is a field generator, and does not supply power to the ship.

Just like it does not move the ship, that is doen by the impluse engine.

Dang Im a girl, and I know this stuff

Really now?

Phasers

In the 2270s, a new system, tying the phasers directly into the main reactor, was developed. While increasing phaser power, it had the disadvantage of cutting off most of or all phaser power if the reactor was damaged. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture; Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Phaser_bank

And in that section, you can interchange "(main) reactor" with "warp core". Don't believe me? Here's proof:

Warp Core

Warp core is the common designation for the main energy reactor powering the propulsion system on warp-capable starships. During the 22nd century, warp reactors aboard NX class starships were technically known as the "Gravimetric Field Displacement Manifold". (ENT: "Cold Front")

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_core

This also disputes the 3rd line of your claim.
Here's some really specific stuff on how power is generated, how warp fields are created, and how the nacelles work. From the same page.

Antimatter containment is achieved through the use of magnetic fields, which guide and direct the antimatter through the antimatter engine to injector coils, which precisely compresses and streams the antimatter into the form which enters the dilithium articulation frame. Deuterium, stored in the ship or attracted by the Bussard collectors, is funneled in a stream from the opposite deuterium injector. The molecules enter the lattice matrix of the crystallized dilithium, reacting within it and releasing a tuned energy stream in the form of electro-plasma, a highly energetic form of plasma. The electro-plasma is carried by magnetic plasma conduits throughout the power transfer system. In the Federation power transfer grid, this is the electro-plasma distribution network, comprising of EPS conduits and EPS taps. The most energized stream created is the warp plasma, which exits in twin power transfer conduits connected to the warp nacelles. (ENT: "Cold Front", "These Are the Voyages..."; Star Trek: Insurrection)

And more proof that the impulse engines derive their power from the warp core.

The impulse drive is a propulsion system used for sublight speeds. In Federation starships, the impulse drive is essentially an augmented fusion rocket, usually consisting of a fusion reactor, an accelerator-generator, a driver coil assembly and a vectored thrust nozzle to direct the plasma exhaust. The fusion reaction generates a highly energized plasma. This plasma, ("electro-plasma") can be employed for propulsion, or can be diverted through the EPS to the power transfer grid, via EPS conduits, so as to supply other systems. The accelerated plasma is passed through the driver coils, thereby generating a subspace field which improves the propulsive effect.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Impulse_drive



So I'm sorry, but your entire statement was false, if slightly haughty. Which brings me to my last point; what does you being a girl have to do with anything? You seem to be insulting your own gender, implying that girls couldn't possibly understand fictional technology and physics from a TV show, no less.

[Father_Origin]

I see some concern over players 'uber stocking' photon torpedos.

not sure why....if you have 2 launchers and a zillion torpedos...you can still
only shoot 2 of them at a time, then you need to let them cycle before you can reshoot them.

I have better things to store than a zillion torpedos, like other weapon systems
and blood wine.

you really only need enuff to get you through your mission and some spare
to deal with something that might pop up.

[Siggy_23]

Really now?

Phasers



http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Phaser_bank

And in that section, you can interchange "(main) reactor" with "warp core". Don't believe me? Here's proof:

Warp Core



http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_core

This also disputes the 3rd line of your claim.
Here's some really specific stuff on how power is generated, how warp fields are created, and how the nacelles work. From the same page.



And more proof that the impulse engines derive their power from the warp core.



http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Impulse_drive



So I'm sorry, but your entire statement was false, if slightly haughty. Which brings me to my last point; what does you being a girl have to do with anything? You seem to be insulting your own gender, implying that girls couldn't possibly understand fictional technology and physics from a TV show, no less.

exactly! :D

[Siggy_23]

actually i do have to give her props for being nerdy enough to even look at a forum like this . . . when i try to explain this stuff to a girl all i get is blank stares and rolled eyes . . . of course . . . that isnt just when im talking about star trek . . . and it isnt just girls . . . :(

[Sevenblade]

actually i do have to give her props for being nerdy enough to even look at a forum like this . . . when i try to explain this stuff to a girl all i get is blank stares and rolled eyes . . . of course . . . that isnt just when im talking about star trek . . . and it isnt just girls . . . :(

Exactly. It's not just girls. So whenever someone tries to pigeonhole people who like Star Trek or anything consider "nerdy/geeky" as adolescent socially awkward males, it kinda rubs me the wrong way. Hell, one of my best friends used to be a 19 year old gamer girl who was way more hardcore than I'll ever be. Oh, and my girlfriend can kick my butt at Halo. No joke. People on Xbox Live think she's a little boy almost every time we play. The notion that girls can't like things like videogames or can't be smart and understand science is flat out benign sexism, and to pretend otherwise is to wear blinders. Being a girl and supposedly understanding Star Trek or the 'science' that goes with it does not make one special or extraordinary in any way (though I think we saw how little understanding there actually was, there...). Lets not feed in to shallow, assumptive stereotypes, shall we?

[Nimisis]

I support Limited weapons such as Torpedo's for sure.

I remember plenty of episodes where they clearly state that they have a certain amount "numbered" of such items like this in their inventory.

As for Phaser's and stuff, they draw power form "banks" plus they take time to charge don't they? If so, then that will handle that limit rather easily.

So with both types of weapons such as these I don't see a problem at all in which certain ships and fights will be completely unfair. With having limitations it creates the need to have strategy, to know when and where to fire what at what time.

A person can have all the power and strength they want in a ship and crew, but I am sure STO will factor in plenty of ways and needs for strategy ,and use of unpractical and practical methods to win in battle.

[SurvokThomas]

I support the limited ammo concept, it feels more like Trek. Watch Star Trek Nemesis or DS9.

The Enterprise-E fought the Scimitar literally until she was exhausted. She depleted her entire stock of torpedoes and ran her phaser banks down to the point where even if they concentrated everything they had left into one blast, it wouldn't leave a scratch (probably because Scimitar took Enterprise's warp core out in the first volley leaving her running all her defensive systems on her impulse and aux reactors). Hence the desperation move of letting Deanna crash yet another Enterprise.

The Defiant went through a number of phaser couplings during the Dominion War, meaning that repeated heavy use burns out critcal components. So, as long as you have spares, available power to recharge your phaser capacitors, and a stock of torpedoes life is good.

[RanizMurjuri]

Limited ammo?

Iv'e never heard such dribble. Of course someone should make more Ammo, that way we can all have Infinite amounts to shoot at each other through time and space.
Maybe they wont make targeting systems, you'll have fire all those Pwntons by manual.
And we will all get Twitch Combat and move from side to side avoiding said Pwntons.
Until we all get dizzy and pass out from tourrets!

.............. yeah.. that right i said it!


I'm all for limiting those Pwntons to about 200. Which i think is the amount Enterprise carried. (could someone look that up for me)
Phasers should be a a Turn/time based recharge. it limits the amount of Energy you can fire at a target. making battles seem more tacticle. an certainly increasing the need for manuavers.
Adding Firing arcs for the turrets. (except the galaxy class has a 360 degree arc)

[ravenkind2]

I agree with the OP, except that you're limited to quantity because of rank. You shouldn't get less weaponry because you're a lower rank, but if you have a smaller ship that can only hold so many, then that would be a viable excuse. I also hope you can target specific systems on your enemy's ship and focus on a specific shield grouping, like port or aft shields.

[ajaco3025]

I mentioned limited ammo in another thread and I got ripped by Pax and other people so fast I didn't think my screen would refresh fast enough.

I support the message of limited ammo.

If you would like to rip me again for supporting this issue, please join me on America's Army so that I may rip you a new ...hole.

[STO-Stucco]

Read through many of the replies. Topic shot through roof since posting the topic yesterday evening. I think it is safe to say we have more in agreement with at least limited torpedoes. Torpedoes can be built through the armory team while only in Green Alert and if you still have sufficient raw materials.

I do agree, after reading, that phasers are on a turn/time system. Depending the strength you have them set at dictates how fast they recharge. Very few were mentioning how after multiple battles and depleted torpedoes would make one an easy target. Remember, you may exhausted all your torpedoes but you should still have phasers to help defend any other foes.

Also, making how fast your armory team builds new torpedoes will be dependent maybe on how many armory crew members you have. If one ship only has 10 members assigned to that task, they will make half the amount of another ship that may 20 members assigned to that task. I think this will go along with what Cryptic says about how you can recruit. Do you recruit and put more staff into Medical, Ship Repairs or into Armory.

Again, looking forward to more information from Cryptic as we approach the release date.

[callsign11b]

I support limited torpedos of any form of torpedoes.
just makes sence you would only have so much room for them in storage.
But when you upgrade your ship you should be add more storage space if you want to.
there a complex system duranium shell thrusters warhead ect..
just something you wouldn't have the resorces or maniufacturing on your ship and to replicate all the parts and put it to gether would take time.
just like missles or torpedoes of today ships and subs don't make them even if they had all the parts to.
as for energy weapons as long as you can put energy into them and have spare parts or replicate damage parts there should be no limit.
If a energy weapon is damaged in battle you have damage control try to fix it.
if destroyed damage control could try to fix it but the battle will be long over before you would get it fixed.
example undiscover country. many tng eposodes. Ds9. even enterprise show.
the only one they broke canon with is voy. janeway could do everything per show. never seem to run out of anything except anti matter.

[Decius]

I'm all for limiting those Pwntons to about 200.

I don't know if it's just me being tired with only 2 hours of sleep, but I found the "Pwntons" really funny lol. Maybe I'm suffering from sleep deprivation or something haha.

[Ahsoka]

So I'm sorry, but your entire statement was false, .

But then there isnt any cannon any more, being that the DEVS have already changed STO beyond Gene's original deseigns.

You can call waht ever you want, what ever you want. and use what ever sources to show you know star trek websites

Tho Iposted way to late at night. You Sir are incorrect iva the TOS time line, which is the only one some of us use.

The impulse engines move the ship in warp and in sublight. The APRs , impuse engines power the caps, which the phasers all draw from.

I have better thigns to do than argue pretend phyics with beings that can quote non TOS canon sources

and most girls dont even know how a car works, let alone a starship.

[RanizMurjuri]

I don't know if it's just me being tired with only 2 hours of sleep, but I found the "Pwntons" really funny lol. Maybe I'm suffering from sleep deprivation or something haha.


Wasn't mine.. i Ferangi'd it from Rook and Seven...

[RanizMurjuri]

But then there isnt any cannon any more, being that the DEVS have already changed STO beyond Gene's original deseigns.

You can call waht ever you want, what ever you want. and use what ever sources to show you know star trek websites

Tho Iposted way to late at night. You Sir are incorrect iva the TOS time line, which is the only one some of us use.

The impulse engines move the ship in warp and in sublight. The APRs , impuse engines power the caps, which the phasers all draw from.

I have better thigns to do than argue pretend phyics with beings that can quote non TOS canon sources

and most girls dont even know how a car works, let alone a starship.


No words to describe your knowledge of Automobiles.

[ElbyStarfire]

I hate to be involved in a technology argument (ok Im lying) but most starships use their warp core to provide primary energy for most starship systems, including tactical systems. Knocking out a ship's warp core would force it to rely on the impulse fusion reactors for axuiliary power generation, and those reactors are not designed for the output required for tactical situations for more than a very limited time (with most starship phaser and shield systems measuring power in terawatts).

There have been numerous occasions on screen where the command crew had to re-route power from other critical systems to buttress the power requirements of shields or weapons. There is also evidence from official sources that we will have to do that with this game, though it is still too early to say that is a permanent feature that wont be changed.

I think it helps with immersion that your various bridge officers will be carrying out tasks like power transfers (ops), moving to provide different shield facing (conn), reinforcing shields (engineering), weapon targeting (tactical) and possibly pinpointing critical systems on other ships (science?). Makes me exciting that this is a possibility.

Back on the limited ammo point, I have a technical question. Federation phasers fire a phased stream of nadion particles. Would a ship have a limited supply of these particles or would they collect more from stellar matter through the bussard collectors? Hoping we dont get quite that technical with the game, but.... :D

[DanSeale]

I agree, a ship should hold the amount of torpedoes that it can fit. If you make any ship modifications which increase the amount of torpedoes that you can have total, then sure increase it even further. I don't think it should be based on rank, it's.. just too much of an artifical restrainment.

Excellent idea ... works well with ships being customized AND yet has that control element of checking supplies before entering a combat situation (wheather PvP or PvE).

Phasers and other related weapons (pulse cannons or disruptors) obviously recharge.

Hmmm I wonder if the strength of the pahsers can be varried in combat .. okie I'll start a new thread on that idea .. no need to hi-jack this one.

[_Pax_]

Depending on your ship type, rank and whatever else that you truly only have x amount of torpedoes, x amount of quantum torpedoes, phaser banks can be depleted during long battles. special weapons can be damaged during battle or malfunction etc...
Um, while I'm with you on the general idea - Torpedoes, for example, are physical objects - I disagree with limiting phaser shots by anything short of "we ran out of antimatter fuel". The whole point of a direct-energy weapon is, "the only limit is how much power/fuel you have".

Also, Rank should only play in, based on what sort of ship hull you start with. As others have said, if you ship CAN hold 20 (or 40, or 500) torpedoes in it's magazines ... then that is how many you should get, wether you're the Admiral of the Fleet, or a raw Ensign.

[Mailman653]

As I'm sure it's been already stated, I think torpedos (or plasma) should be limited to what the ship can carry or generate while phasers should be unlimited as long as the ship still has it's main power up. Once the ship has taken on too much damanged, phasers should go down along with non esential systems. The only thing working on a ship thats been badly beaten should be life support and maybe it's impulse engines.

[_Pax_]

Lmao. I can't wait for my Prometheus's regenerative shields to shrug 'em off like flies :p
... 15 to 18 Quantum Torpedoes, all at once? Dude, not even the BORG would just "shrug off" that sort of an alpha-strike! You'll be ucky if you have AFT shields left, after taking that sort of attack to the face!! :eek:

[_Pax_]

also thinking that the Breen energy dampening weapon then comes into play . . . and heat doesnt make much sense in space . . . i mean its 3 kelvin out there! and once again, sorry about the block of text . . . my phone doesnt let me enter returns
Actually, it is VERY VERY DIFFICULT to dump heat into space. Sure, space itself is "cold" in the sense that it lacks much thermal energy - but there's not a whole lot of MATTER out there to put more thermal energy INTO.

It's harder to keep a spacecraft from overheating, than it is to keep it from freezing; heat doesn't radiate into a vacuum very well.

[_Pax_]

Phasers draw thier power from capasitors that fill from the impluse reactors.
Actually, they fill from the EPS system - which is mainly fed from the warp core.

The warp core is a field generator, and does not supply power to the ship.
No, the Warp Field Coils in the Nacelles are the "field generators". The Warp Core is the M/AM reaction chamber of a starship - well, Fed and Klingon ships. Romulan ships use an artificial singularity for their Warp Core.

[_Pax_]

But then there isnt any cannon any more, being that the DEVS have already changed STO beyond Gene's original deseigns.
... he got his information from Memory Alpha.

M:A gets it's information from the actual TV series.

You are SO completely wrong, it's ... actually quite hilarious. :smirk:

The impulse engines move the ship in warp and in sublight. The APRs , impuse engines power the caps, which the phasers all draw from.
Sweetie? "APR" is a Star Fleet Battles term. SFB's take on Tech is not "correct" for canonical Trek.

and most people dont even know how a car works, let alone a starship.
Fixed that for you.

[auutumn]

I agree that physical weapons should have limitations. Energy weapons will need a cool down time if they're used continuously.