wonder what rank you will be able to gain

[wilton84]

just wondring what rank will you be able to obtain. and what rank you will start as seen as most ranks can have comand. but thay are automaticly called captain. also will you have to gain the rank of admiral to have a fleet. as in fleet admrial.l

[Silverspar]

Lt. Commander is technically the lowest, official rank that would be given a small command, though as low as Lt. JG for training would also given command (aka Lt. Saavik in Star Trek II). As far as top rank is concerned, personally I think nothing higher than a commodore, as seeing a fleet full of fleet admirals would throw off the whole immersion thing.

[Sevenblade]

Lt. Commander is technically the lowest, official rank that would be given a small command, though as low as Lt. JG for training would also given command (aka Lt. Saavik in Star Trek II). As far as top rank is concerned, personally I think nothing higher than a commodore, as seeing a fleet full of fleet admirals would throw off the whole immersion thing.

While you're right, I would think they might start us out a little bit lower, say, Ensign, so that we're not quite so high up the command structure right out of Starfleet Academy. Allows us more room to progress through the 'levels'. Most likely, the only thing an Ensign could fly is Delta Flyer-esque, so you'd definitely have to rank up to Lt. J.G. if you wanted anything that would normally be considered a ship, and not just a shuttle.
And I think we'll probably be able to go as high as Rear Admiral, but no more. That's about the highest rank that makes sense to still be commanding their own ship regularly (even if normally this would be a somewhat rare occasion).

[RookActual]

Im definitely on board with Silverspar for this one. There really only need to be three or four ranks. Starting with Lieutenant or Lieutenant Commander, Commander, Captain. I could handle a Lieutenant having a minor command.

However, there hasn't been a solid answer provided, yet. I'm thinking it may be correlated with the tiers of vessels that are available. I think that's been mentioned but I haven't read that article in a while.

[Sevenblade]

Personally, I'd be kind of bored if there were only that many ranks. Yeah, it'd be a lot more effort to 'level up', but after you did that only like 4 times, you'd be like "Ok, what now?". It's the level cap problem of any other MMO, but instead of 50-70 levels, you have 4. This might be a poor example because of the difference in effort to attain them, and the fact that they're not really 'levels', per se, but it just seems too short for me. I'd rather start as a lowly ensign and work my way up. Just as long as the grind isn't too bad.

[RookActual]

Personally, I'd be kind of bored if there were only that many ranks. Yeah, it'd be a lot more effort to 'level up', but after you did that only like 4 times, you'd be like "Ok, what now?". It's the level cap problem of any other MMO, but instead of 50-70 levels, you have 4. This might be a poor example because of the difference in effort to attain them, and the fact that they're not really 'levels', per se, but it just seems too short for me. I'd rather start as a lowly ensign and work my way up. Just as long as the grind isn't too bad.

WARNING Speculative Opinion Coming WARNING

You're thinking of them as levels, though, when they're probably more like expensive skills you buy that just grant you access to higher tiers of equipment, vessels and personnel. They'll have a cost attached to them, and if you don't like any ships at the Captain rank, you won't feel obliged to buy that rank.

[Sevenblade]

WARNING Speculative Opinion Coming WARNING

You're thinking of them as levels, though, when they're probably more like expensive skills you buy that just grant you access to higher tiers of equipment, vessels and personnel. They'll have a cost attached to them, and if you don't like any ships at the Captain rank, you won't feel obliged to buy that rank.

Yeah, you're right, but it's hard to think of them otherwise, especially because we don't have a lot of hard info on how they'll be implemented. Plus, I just personally feel (and I don't know what others think on this) that the ships could be broken up into more tiers than just 3 or 4. Also, it develops more differentiation, rather than having most people running around at the lieutenant-area level. With so few ranks, there's kind of an overlap, so where one person may be a very experienced lieutenant, getting closer to Lt. Commander, one could be freshly promoted, but they'd still kinda be lumped together. I don't know, I guess I'd just like a little bit more specific ranking system than the broad one that seems to be suggested.

[RookActual]

I just like the idea that I can be a commander, potentially stay on my Akira class ship, but keep buying skills and equipment with my points as I accrue them but still be just as competitive as a Captain on a Sovereign who has equal skill points invested. I know I keep spouting this concept all over the place, with the pointbuild, and the rank not being equivalent to a level. It's just because I know how well it works in RPGs...it's much more open and your character really is truly a lot more customizeable. There aren't 'classes' as are conventional with most MMOs...it'll be a lot more diverse. I wish I was capable of demonstrating the Champions or GURPS system.

[Sevenblade]

I just like the idea that I can be a commander, potentially stay on my Akira class ship, but keep buying skills and equipment with my points as I accrue them but still be just as competitive as a Captain on a Sovereign who has equal skill points invested. I know I keep spouting this concept all over the place, with the pointbuild, and the rank not being equivalent to a level. It's just because I know how well it works in RPGs...it's much more open and your character really is truly a lot more customizeable. There aren't 'classes' as are conventional with most MMOs...it'll be a lot more diverse. I wish I was capable of demonstrating the Champions or GURPS system.

I'm definitely with you there, at least. People shouldn't feel pressured to get one ship or the other, wherein everyone goes after the Sovereign, it being the 'uber' ship of the Federation. Nor should classes be unbalanced. The whole point of playing an MMO is playing how you choose to, so people shouldn't be punished for those choices if they want to take the road less traveled and pick a class/ship that isn't considered the very tip-top, unbeatable one.

[RookActual]

I'm definitely with you there, at least. People shouldn't feel pressured to get one ship or the other, wherein everyone goes after the Sovereign, it being the 'uber' ship of the Federation. Nor should classes be unbalanced. The whole point of playing an MMO is playing how you choose to, so people shouldn't be punished for those choices if they want to take the road less traveled and pick a class/ship that isn't considered the very tip-top, unbeatable one.

I hate classes. I played D20 in several incarnations and just got so fed up wondering why my character couldn't do something simple just because it didn't fit in my class description. I also hate the vanilla/cookie cutter form that classes force you into. In D&D, there were really only a few ways to make a Ranger be different from someone else's Ranger without working towards a useful prestige class you couldn't access without meeting some silly prerequisites, and usually at a high level. In GURPS and Champions, where there aren't classes, just points to spend, I have never once seen anyone's character be even remotely the same as someone else's.

The big flaw with pointbuild systems on a PC game is that you can seriously, and easily, screw up your character by spreading your points around too much. Usually, to combat this problem, the initial cost of the skill is a little higher so that you'll start out moderately proficient with it. You also have to have the skills have a low enough maximum to where your points count, but not so low you end up with characters that can actually have maxed out every single skill.

[Debaser]

I thought I read somewhere that we would be starting out as Lieutenant JG, but of course I could be wrong.

[DanSeale]

Rook

I think I understand what you are saying ... and agree. See how this works for a varriant on your idea.

Basically 4 maybe 5 ranks to climb. Each of those ranks have "X" number of levels to each rank (To help accomodate the "leveling" process.) I kinda hate using the term "leveling" BUT please keep in mind that I use that term only as a point of reference since that is what we understand it in most MMO situations.

In other words you might have 5 steps (just as an example) of an Ensign before graduating to the next RANK. During those 5 steps you would be developing skills and perhaps even other aspects of toon development.

I also agree that the rank of the officer in question should reflect the class of ship that they are permitted to command. (You wouldn't want an Ensign commanding a carrier, BB or even an CA class.)

I also agree that more than likely Commodor would be the highest rank for players...(Although the rank of Commodor is no longer used in RL . but may have been reinstalled in the games.) NPCs of coarse would be what ever rank needed.

Just a couple of thoughts .

Thanks

[bradley1701]

WARNING Speculative Opinion Coming WARNING

You're thinking of them as levels, though, when they're probably more like expensive skills you buy that just grant you access to higher tiers of equipment, vessels and personnel. They'll have a cost attached to them, and if you don't like any ships at the Captain rank, you won't feel obliged to buy that rank.

I agree with Rook...you could have skills that you level to a certain point that affect your character and their profession, but rank is something else that would affect what starships you can command, etc.

[aguila432]

Ive said before but Ill mention again because I firmly believe this,

but It would be fine with me if we started out from the beginning at the academy, i dont just see myself as a player just poppin into the game world one day as a captain lookin for a crew thats for sure, hel lthats not even ya know, realistic in terms of gameplay for mmos, which for the most part basicly run largely off an advancement system. So the higher the level you start your players at, the less content your giving them because theyre missing a whole story and background of gameplay imo.

Its like lucas claims to have did with starwars kinda, you make all this high level end story crap and release it first as your main story, then come back later and claim that well, I felt there was a richness I had to touch on, or oh i already had this i just didnt wanna release it yet .

Point being you should have provided that from the get go and not tried to push it on folks later.

[mcfeeley1071]

Well IMHO I would enjoy a natural progression from Ensign on up... I believe it would be helpful in truly being able to command a vessel if you know more about each of its systems (maybe a short stint in each of the areas of operations i.e. Engineering, Ops, etc). Given that the game will have that level of detail. I can't say what should be the highest rank, but I don't believe it will be much fun within a year if we have a bunch of Commodores or Fleet Admirals running around. I think the higher ranks should be apart of (and don't kill me over this) an old Star Wars Galaxy Jedi Council style of acceptance/ranking. Where you have a council or commanding group for say each Guild (or Fleet in STO). That way you don't have a bunch of high ranking players running around. I know, now you say that "Why doesn't everyone just start their own Fleet and 'presto' you can be the highest rank". My rebuttal to that would be, that to enter certain instances or complete certain away missions that require say a group of 20 to 50, only one or two Fleets may enter to complete at a time. This would also add prestige to such a rank because of the Fleet/Guild you have put together. Also for better for chain of command for those hardcore players i.e. me.

I dunno just a thought. :confused:

[ElbyStarfire]

For the sake of immersion, I think Captain should be the highest rank. Most ship captains in Trek have held the rank of Captain so it does not bother me. I do believe we should start out as a junior rank. I think Lt. JG makes better sense than Ensign. I can see a junior LT getting put in charge of a team of other officers. And of course we have seen away missions on runabouts and (yes the Delta Flyer) shuttles where a JG was in charge. Of course it would be neat if you were based off of a larger starship during those times. :D

[plankcore]

I'd like to see my guy start out as a Lieutenant, new to command, training on a Danube runabout or something, attaining the rank of Lieutenant Commander after completing some minor training quests.

Eventually, I think you'd be able to reach the lower Admiralty, since there WILL be player fleets and such.

[belljack95]

I would suggest that players start out as a Lieutenant in Starfleet (and the Klingon equilvalent) and then rise as high as Commodore or Rear Admiral. (I remember Commodore Matt Decker was commanding the Lexington in a TOS episode with the world killer).

Starting as a full Lieutenant (the equilvalent to an Fleet Marine Captain) you could be in command of a scoutship (with a 12-20 man crew) and have maybe 2 or 3 Bridge Officers (Chief Helmsman, Chief Engineer, Executive Officer) to go through the tutorial and beginning missions. Once promoted to Lt Commander you could get a Frigate class ship (maybe 80 -100 man crew) and add the other bridge officers as well.

Then promotion to a Commander would give you access to maybe a Destroyer class ship (or a Science/Exploration "Nova" like class ship). When you get promoted to Captain you could get initial access to the Cruiser class ships and then as you gain seniority as a Captain you could get better/bigger ships.

Flag Officer rank (Commodore/Rear Admiral) would make sense if you are in a Fleet but you could handle ship grouping by having the "senior" Captain take command - if Cryptic decides to limit promotion to the rank of Captain.

[Silverspar]

Quick Reply:

I am pretty sure that Cryptic said you will not start as an Ensign, I believe it was Jack who said that in one of the interviews.

[headlockman]

admiral mabey?

[Merchanter]

Seems to be people wanting to get higher and higher rank to start with. That is not necessarly good or bad but you have to think that their are actually only a FEW ranks involved. And in RL the fact that you have to be an officer to command a ship is a post WWII development. Congress did not pass the laws saying you had to be a comissioned line officer to command a ship untill after the war. their wer a number of cases where CPO's held command. Several times being in command when the ship left port for patrol or joining a TF/TG.


The fact is, In MY oppinion, It would be better to come out of the acadamy as an ENS and work up in rank getting bigger and better ships as you advance. otherwise you may as well just start out as a CAPT and start with a SOV. That is where most of the discussion is leading anyway. And personally I do NOT want a Sov. I want a fast mid-size ship that I can have fun with.

[Jaenus]

Game ranks will be trumped by my fleet ranks. If I assign you "Admiral" then you're an admiral, as I doubt I'll agree with how the devs decide on how to give ranks out.

Ranks should be based on PVE for the most part, but after a certain point PVP should be the determining factor. You wont have someone ranked Commodore who has never seen a lot of battle, but you wouldnt hesitate to promote someone to Commander who's still only doing delivery missions.

[Sevenblade]

Quick Reply:

I am pretty sure that Cryptic said you will not start as an Ensign, I believe it was Jack who said that in one of the interviews.

Pretty sure you're right on that one. I remember hearing that, as well.

[DarianDrakon]

Even though we are all going to be "Captains", we are going to have varying ranks. What those ranks will be I don't know, but I am curious if our ranks will play a part in teaming. Like if I team with someone who is a Commander and I'm a Lt. Cmdr, will the other player automatically be the team leader?

[CurtisWT]

Isn't Commodore how they address a non-crew captain on a ship? Rather then breach etiquette by having two captains on the same ship, the guest is addressed as Commodore? At least currently.

Here is how I would set this up for ranks.

(Optional) Cadet: Basic training, people will probably just go through this rank once, basically have a brief training session at the factions academy. How to use the interfaces and whatnot.

Ensign: Advanced academy training. Evasive manuevering, fire and manuever, etc...

Once finished with the academy training you progress through the ranks as such.

Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, Commander, Captain, Rear Admiral (General for Klingons), Admiral (Marshall for Klingons)
If I remember correctly, Klingons used Groundforce ranks for the upper echelon ranks.

Increase the ship sizes that you can obtain as you progress through the ranks until you get to Rear Admiral. And make the full Admiral rank very difficult to attain, even make it outside of the standard leveling practices.