Formations

[RookActual]

I love seeing a good tight formation, don't you? Yet, it always seems to be so difficult, and in reality it takes an inordinate amount of practice to do. So what if there were a game mechanic that allowed to do this without trying so hard?

I foresee that a Squadron leader would be able to click the formation he desires and indicators would then become visible so the player could navigate into that spot. Once in that spot, your vessel is essentially 'slaved' to the Flight Leader until you move it yourself. Engaging or disengaging is at will, but if you're not moving your vessel while you're on the 'formation' marker, then you're moving with the formation.

[Valse]

Well MMOs already have follow commands, I see this as a rather modified version of that. Perhaps a "follow" with different benefits to certain stats depending on the formation?

I love seeing a good tight formation, don't you? Yet, it always seems to be so difficult, and in reality it takes an inordinate amount of practice to do. So what if there were a game mechanic that allowed to do this without trying so hard?

I foresee that a Squadron leader would be able to click the formation he desires and indicators would then become visible so the player could navigate into that spot. Once in that spot, your vessel is essentially 'slaved' to the Flight Leader until you move it yourself. Engaging or disengaging is at will, but if you're not moving your vessel while you're on the 'formation' marker, then you're moving with the formation.

[RookActual]

Well MMOs already have follow commands, I see this as a rather modified version of that. Perhaps a "follow" with different benefits to certain stats depending on the formation?

Well, things like V Formations, and what not. Just being able to choose the formation you want to be in.

Examples: Vee Formations, Phalanxes, Wedge, Column, Line, Box, Echelon....etc.

[Valse]

I like it. Just like Starfleet-- streamline.

Well, things like V Formations, and what not. Just being able to choose the formation you want to be in.

Examples: Vee Formations, Phalanxes, Wedge, Column, Line, Box, Echelon....etc.

[Triatom]

I love seeing a good tight formation, don't you? Yet, it always seems to be so difficult, and in reality it takes an inordinate amount of practice to do. So what if there were a game mechanic that allowed to do this without trying so hard?

I foresee that a Squadron leader would be able to click the formation he desires and indicators would then become visible so the player could navigate into that spot. Once in that spot, your vessel is essentially 'slaved' to the Flight Leader until you move it yourself. Engaging or disengaging is at will, but if you're not moving your vessel while you're on the 'formation' marker, then you're moving with the formation.

Hmm yeah this would be a very interesting idea to put in. Of course, the more advanced formations would be left out for fleets/teams to work out on their own. I just hope that fleet tactics would actually determine who wins the battle and such rather than just using a default command or something of the sort. But yeah definitely interesting, perhaps we will see something like this. And if I am not mistaken, the combat will be 3D, so it adds another level to the gameplay yay!

P.S. Do you have fortune cookies tonight?

[RookActual]

I like it. Just like Starfleet-- streamline.

Even though I couldn't write a calculator program to save my life, I try to only propose things I think would be simple to program. It seems to me like merely just expanding on the follow programming would work, except instead of following behind all the time, you may be one column over and one rank behind.

[RookActual]

Hmm yeah this would be a very interesting idea to put in. Of course, the more advanced formations would be left out for fleets/teams to work out on their own. I just hope that fleet tactics would actually determine who wins the battle and such rather than just using a default command or something of the sort. But yeah definitely interesting, perhaps we will see something like this. And if I am not mistaken, the combat will be 3D, so it adds another level to the gameplay yay!

P.S. Do you have fortune cookies tonight?

Well, it would be an impact concept. Not many formations remain intact after they close and fire. So you'd get that initial organized strike, but I think most Captains wouldn't want their vessel slave rigged any more after that.

As for for fortune cookies, I think I ate them, contents and all, this time.

[Urantia]

Unremarkable idea....players should be able to get into formations on their own without silly commands or templates. With all due respect I doubt formations will matter beyond a form of vanity....but putting in a cookie cutter command kills realism and assumes skilled players cannot form up on their own. I vote no on this.....but will not lose sleep if it gets implemented.

While I more than realize we are all just chatting here....and dreaming of course, what would be really awesome is if people would suggest things that matter....and reserve trying to overload the designers with endless silly ideas.

[eqfan592]

Unremarkable idea....players should be able to get into formations on their own without silly commands or templates. With all due respect I doubt formations will matter beyond a form of vanity....but putting in a cookie cutter command kills realism and assumes skilled players cannot form up on their own. I vote no on this.....but will not lose sleep if it gets implemented.

While I more than realize we are all just chatting here....and dreaming of course, what would be really awesome is if people would suggest things that matter....and reserve trying to overload the designers with endless silly ideas.

First, I would argue that this is not at all a "silly" idea, nor are formations simply a matter of vanity.

Second, I believe there are at least a couple of cannon instances where ships tie their helm control into another ships, even if for a short while, in order to better hold a tight formation. Obviously, as the OP said I believe, this would not be something a captain would want to do beyond the first exchange of fire, but it can help set the table for the overall engagement.

Lastly, keep in mind that Star Trek was created by a man loaded with nothing but what many people thought were "silly" ideas. Maybe we should try to keep that in mind and not try to be so harsh?

[RookActual]

Unremarkable idea....players should be able to get into formations on their own without silly commands or templates. With all due respect I doubt formations will matter beyond a form of vanity....but putting in a cookie cutter command kills realism and assumes skilled players cannot form up on their own. I vote no on this.....but will not lose sleep if it gets implemented.

While I more than realize we are all just chatting here....and dreaming of course, what would be really awesome is if people would suggest things that matter....and reserve trying to overload the designers with endless silly ideas.

I'm not saying this in a vain attempt to preserve face and defend my suggestion, but I didn't know that you were Cryptic's Director of Things That Matter. Nice to meet you! :D I really love criticism of my ideas, because I usually arrive at a point where I realize they're unnecessary or better ways to do them. I enjoy formations, but, as I said above, have never played a game where they're in any way simple to do. Hence the recommendation. I'm sure if a developer were to read this, it'd be out of their mind in about ten seconds. A lot of suggestions I make are based on the fact that other's may find ways through their experience to implement them without design integration.

[Napalm006]

Unremarkable idea....players should be able to get into formations on their own without silly commands or templates. With all due respect I doubt formations will matter beyond a form of vanity....but putting in a cookie cutter command kills realism and assumes skilled players cannot form up on their own. I vote no on this.....but will not lose sleep if it gets implemented.

While I more than realize we are all just chatting here....and dreaming of course, what would be really awesome is if people would suggest things that matter....and reserve trying to overload the designers with endless silly ideas.

I think fleet formations would be awesome in PvE, and could look intimidating in PvP. There is one good instance I can think of when Sisko leads the attack to retake DS9. He has Miranda's and Birds of Prey in tight formation with the Defiant as they bust through. Being able to do something like that would be incredible.

[RookActual]

I think fleet formations would be awesome in PvE, and could look intimidating in PvP. There is one good instance I can think of when Sisko leads the attack to retake DS9. He has Miranda's and Birds of Prey in tight formation with the Defiant as they bust through. Being able to do something like that would be incredible.

That wasn't any help, either, Napalm. I knew you'd agree, you're why I thought of it in the first place!

[Debaser]

Unremarkable idea....players should be able to get into formations on their own without silly commands or templates. With all due respect I doubt formations will matter beyond a form of vanity....but putting in a cookie cutter command kills realism and assumes skilled players cannot form up on their own. I vote no on this.....but will not lose sleep if it gets implemented.

While I more than realize we are all just chatting here....and dreaming of course, what would be really awesome is if people would suggest things that matter....and reserve trying to overload the designers with endless silly ideas.

Wow. Way to make yourself sound like an a$$hole! /thumbsup


As for the OP, I think it's a good idea!

[Napalm006]

I could see formations helping out with directing shields. If you got a big ship on your port side then you wouldnt need to strengthen the shields there. Weapons fire could be concentrated and done in sync for maximum effect. Formation could shift to help a damaged ship retreat to get shields back online or up to full. Just a few ideas on how formations could help.

[RookActual]

I could see formations helping out with directing shields. If you got a big ship on your port side then you wouldnt need to strengthen the shields there. Weapons fire could be concentrated and done in sync for maximum effect. Formation could shift to help a damaged ship retreat to get shields back online or up to full. Just a few ideas on how formations could help.

.....thanks, I was getting ready to post that. Stupid smoke breaks.

[Urantia]

As you probably realized I was not attacking formations...nor their appearance in in shows or other media....I was attacking the idea of an auto-mechanism to make it so (and yes it would not be outside the realm of ST to have the computer form up a fleet). I may be off, but in my opinion I would find it more fun to try and form up manually (if ever). In essense, like many, I want this game to be as realistic as possible...granted computers seem to be very powerful in the 24th century.

And to the guy using the Gene being loaded and people thinking his ideas were silly analogy.....that is stretching it a tad far. Read evey post in this forum and tell one place you did not agree and/or found silly. I guess in the end I found computer controlled formations (as a feature in this game specifically) as silly as I would rather the devs focus on other things.

However, by now I gather the OP knows that I was not trying to knock him/her personally....just the idea itself....."silly" is certainly a generic term and I agree I could have tried to be less genric. But I am not one for short "I do not like the idea and would rather the devs focus on other matters" type of person :)

[Napalm006]

As you probably realized I was not attacking formations...nor their appearance in in shows or other media....I was attacking the idea of an auto-mechanism to make it so (and yes it would not be outside the realm of ST to have the computer form up a fleet). I may be off, but in my opinion I would find it more fun to try and form up manually (if ever). In essense, like many, I want this game to be as realistic as possible...granted computers seem to be very powerful in the 24th century.

And to the guy using the Gene being loaded and people thinking his ideas were silly analogy.....that is stretching it a tad far. Read evey post in this forum and tell one place you did not agree and/or found silly. I guess in the end I found computer controlled formations (as a feature in this game specifically) as silly as I would rather the devs focus on other things.

However, by now I gather the OP knows that I was not trying to knock him/her personally....just the idea itself....."silly" is certainly a generic term and I agree I could have tried to be less genric. But I am not one for short "I do not like the idea and would rather the devs focus on other matters" type of person :)

I dont think it would be something the computer does for you, just and option that everyone in the party can say ok to, to enter a formation. Then the fleet lead could issue a formation maneuver and the computer would assist in moving and keep up with the lead. Aside from that, any form of movement via manual input from the player would break the computer assisted formation.

[Urantia]

Wow. Way to make yourself sound like an a$$hole! /thumbsup


As for the OP, I think it's a good idea!

No more than you with that style of reply. While you may not have liked my language I did not attack the poster with a disguised colorful insult. But that is okay you seem to be the sort that will act like this to anyone that does not agree with what you like. I did not like the idea so I guess I am an "a$$hole." No worries...all forums have your type...cannot wait to see your type in game acting out and attempting to insult everyone with less than professional behavior. Thankfully this game will an ignore feature (a feature I am sure 100% will agree on having)

[Urantia]

I dont think it would be something the computer does for you, just and option that everyone in the party can say ok to, to enter a formation. Then the fleet lead could issue a formation maneuver and the computer would assist in moving and keep up with the lead. Aside from that, any form of movement via manual input from the player would break the computer assisted formation.

That is what I figured...again I suppose my reaction was misunderstood......I suppose at the root of my concern was the game having a dumbed down feeling to it....on an extreme where we never have to do anything except push a button. Granted this is not what the OP was asking for....what it may lead to put me out a bit. And I an sure most want this game to be complicated and feel realistic (whatever that might be).

[RookActual]

That is what I figured...again I suppose my reaction was misunderstood......I suppose at the root of my concern was the game having a dumbed down feeling to it....on an extreme where we never have to do anything except push a button. Granted this is not what the OP was asking for....what it may lead to put me out a bit. And I an sure most want this game to be complicated and feel realistic (whatever that might be).

No, trust me, it's pretty much exactly what I was asking for. I don't want set my ship to follow, I just want some help in maintaining a formation. If I have to 'dock' my Ship with some sort of marker to do that, that's fine. I don't have any desire to be locked in that formation, though. I could only imagine the random space debris I'd be ramming friendly ships into if I were the flight lead.

[Debaser]

No more than you with that style of reply. While you may not have liked my language I did not attack the poster with a disguised colorful insult. But that is okay you seem to be the sort that will act like this to anyone that does not agree with what you like. I did not like the idea so I guess I am an "a$$hole." No worries...all forums have your type...cannot wait to see your type in game acting out and attempting to insult everyone with less than professional behavior. Thankfully this game will an ignore feature (a feature I am sure 100% will agree on having)


To clarfiy, I never said you WERE an a$$hole, I said you SOUNDED like one. Big difference. (In fact, you could probably say the same thing about me right now). TBH, I found your response to the OP to be dismissive and belittling, which elicted the response it did from me.


No worries...all forums have your type...cannot wait to see your type in game acting out and attempting to insult everyone with less than professional behavior. Thankfully this game will an ignore feature (a feature I am sure 100% will agree on having)

All I can say to this is wow, do you ever have me pegged wrong. And if you think you can tell "my type" from one post...well then, you're acting just like me ;)

[Napalm006]

That is what I figured...again I suppose my reaction was misunderstood......I suppose at the root of my concern was the game having a dumbed down feeling to it....on an extreme where we never have to do anything except push a button. Granted this is not what the OP was asking for....what it may lead to put me out a bit. And I an sure most want this game to be complicated and feel realistic (whatever that might be).

I just know that it is very hard to do manual formations, and believe I try. Whether it is Ace Combat, XWA, Eve, etc. It is very hard to anticipate someones next move without rehearsed communication. Thats why I would be in favor of an automated assistance for fleet formations.

[RookActual]

To clarfiy, I never said you WERE an a$$hole, I said you SOUNDED like one. Big difference. (In fact, you could probably say the same thing about me right now). TBH, I found your response to the OP to be dismissive and belittling, which elicted the response it did from me.


I don't really agree with your earlier derogatory statement, but I agree with why you felt the way you did, because I felt very much the way you think I did. Dismissed and belittled. Very much needlessly, at that.

[RookActual]

I just know that it is very hard to do manual formations, and believe I try. Whether it is Ace Combat, XWA, Eve, etc. It is very hard to anticipate someones next move without rehearsed communication. Thats why I would be in favor of an automated assistance for fleet formations.

Even in games with slower more stable vehicles it's difficult. Mech4, for example....you can even declare a speed and that game and still be bumping into each other. I think just working towards making formations more feasible, particularly in a game where you'll have multiple axis movement, would be the type of polish on a good game that could make it a great game. In and of it's self, the idea can't make the game good...sure, but on top of a good game, definitely.

[Napalm006]

Even in games with slower more stable vehicles it's difficult. Mech4, for example....you can even declare a speed and that game and still be bumping into each other. I think just working towards making formations more feasible, particularly in a game where you'll have multiple axis movement, would be the type of polish on a good game that could make it a great game. In and of it's self, the idea can't make the game good...sure, but on top of a good game, definitely.

Well one good things about Trek, is that you can say three quarter impulse or aft thrusters, etc. That in of itself would be easier for formation speeds.

[RookActual]

Well one good things about Trek, is that you can say three quarter impulse or aft thrusters, etc. That in of itself would be easier for formation speeds.

So long as 3/4 Impulse means the same thing on every ship.....

[Napalm006]

So long as 3/4 Impulse means the same thing on every ship.....

I would gather that if a speed like Aft thrusters were required in Space Dock that would be a certain speed. I would also think that speeds below 'Flank' would be close to the same. Could be wrong, but I would think that if Warp is universal like warp 4 then say half impulse would be as well. Curious to find out more about that.

[RookActual]

Reason I say this is because on a lot of ships, that's a standard, but it's relative to the vessel in question.

[Debaser]

I don't really agree with your earlier derogatory statement, but I agree with why you felt the way you did, because I felt very much the way you think I did. Dismissed and belittled. Very much needlessly, at that.

An overreaction on my part. I've been postingon various discussion boards for a long time, as everything from a regular poster right up to Admin, I guess I'm just jaded.

And to Urantia, if you're still reading this, let me apologize for us getting off on the wrong foot, I'm not here to make enemies:)

[RookActual]

I don't really try and judge people for getting a little heated, because the person who claims they never do, is lying.

[Debaser]

Ain't that the truth!

:D

[Urantia]

An overreaction on my part. I've been postingon various discussion boards for a long time, as everything from a regular poster right up to Admin, I guess I'm just jaded.

And to Urantia, if you're still reading this, let me apologize for us getting off on the wrong foot, I'm not here to make enemies:)

No problem...forgotten. And I agree my language could have been interpreted to seem more harsh than was intended (the joys of toneless chat). Like I stated before a simple "I am not for this idea and would prefer the devs focus on other stuff" would have sufficed and seemed less insulting. I made the mistake of assuming you would get that my tone was not specificially about you, but "silly" ideas (yes subjective on my part) in general.

I also apologize to the OP if he was truly offended as that was not the intent...hence my "With all due respect.." insert.

[Debaser]

No problem...forgotten. And I agree my language could have been interpreted to seem more harsh than was intended (the joys of toneless chat). Like I stated before a simple "I am not for this idea and would prefer the devs focus on other stuff" would have sufficed and seemed less insulting. I made the mistake of assuming you would get that my tone was not specificially about you, but "silly" ideas (yes subjective on my part) in general.

I also apologize to the OP if he was truly offended as that was not the intent...hence my "With all due respect.." insert.

Yeah, that's the one major drawback to text-based communication, there's no way to communicate tone or inflection, which is a huge part of understanding what someone is saying.